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Dialogue: June 8 - 14, 2007
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Welcome to disaster, people. Really.

by Underground Panther in the Sky

June 14, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
If Iran is invaded... And it looks like it will be... Welcome to disaster, people. Really.

Kucinich reveals Dem funding bill includes privatization of Iraq oil & carte blanche to invade Iran

Bush will toss a "pre-emptive" nuke over there because of the Oil Bourse. Same reason for Iraq invasion. Saddam wanted to trade oil in Euros and drop the dollar. Halliburton/Bush didn't like that Saddam told the US oil tycoons to fuck off, so the Republicans used the national guard like tools and The Rich pigs used taxpayer money like a personal ATM card and they sent some corporate mercenaries and invaded Iraq. They bombed, tortured people.

You know if we invade Iran, Korea will be pissed off and more ready to act, Russia will lose it, and other countries will too. And all hell will break loose -- on the U.S., not on Bush or Cheney or this vile cabal. They will be snug underground. We will not be that "fortunate". People whining the price of gas is bad now... just wait.
LINK

Bush is about to spring the trap those fucking neocon tyrant assholes have been plotting to spring on us since before Nixon. When the trap slams on our neck it will be too late to wake up. These fuckers in Washington on BOTH sides will have fucked us all over, bad.
LINK LINK LINK

Russian President Vladimir Putin offered his own response to Bush from the deck of the Russian battle cruiser Peter the Great in the Barents Sea. Putin's warning addressed the Cheney-Rumsfeld reliance on low-yield nuclear weapons as a key component of US strategy. "I think that lowering the threshold for the use of nuclear arms is a dangerous trend, because somebody may feel tempted to use nuclear weapons," Putin told journalists. "If that happens, the next step can be taken -- more powerful nuclear arms can be used, which may lead to a nuclear conflict. This extremely dangerous trend is in the back of the mind of some politicians and military officials," the president said. (Interfax, August 17) This can be read as a nuclear counterthreat in response to Bush's "all options are on the table."
LINK LINK

On the one hand there is the Iranian decision of opening the first oil bourse priced in Euros on March 20th, 2006 in Teheran, available to all oil producers of the region ; on the other hand, there is the decision of the American Federal Reserve to stop publishing M3 figures (the most reliable indicator on the amount of dollars circulating in the world) from March 23, 2006 onward.

These two decisions constitute altogether the indicators, the causes and the consequences of the historical transition in progress between the order created after World War II and the new international equilibrium in gestation since the collapse of the USSR. Their magnitude as much as their simultaneity will catalyze all the tensions, weaknesses and imbalances accumulated since more than a decade throughout the international system ...

Decoding of the aggravating factor “The military intervention against Iran” Iran holds some significant geo-strategic assets in the current crisis, such as its ability to intervene easily and with a major impact on the oil provisioning of Asia and Europe (by blocking the Strait of Ormuz), on the conflicts in progress in Iraq and Afghanistan, not to mention the possible recourse to international terrorism. But besides these aspects, the growing distrust towards Washington creates a particularly problematic situation. Far from calming both Asian and European fears concerning the accession of Iran to the statute of nuclear power, a military intervention against Iran would result in an quasi-immediate dissociation of the European public opinions <6> which, in a context where Washington has lost its credibility in handling properly this type of case since the invasion of Iraq, will prevent the European governments from making any thing else than follow their public opinions. In parallel, the rising cost of oil which would follow such an intervention will lead Asian countries, China first and foremost, to oppose this option, thus forcing the United States (or Israel) to intervene on their own, without UN guarantee, therefore adding a severe military and diplomatic crisis to the economic and financial crisis.
LINK

To date, one of the more difficult technical obstacles concerning a euro-based oil transaction trading system is the lack of a euro-denominated oil pricing standard, or oil ‘marker’ as it is referred to in the industry. The three current oil markers are U.S. dollar denominated, which include the West Texas Intermediate crude (WTI), Norway Brent crude, and the UAE Dubai crude. However, since the spring of 2003, Iran has required payments in the euro currency for its European and Asian/ACU exports - although the oil pricing for trades are still denominated in the dollar.
LINK

Another Iranian official said to be familiar with the “retaliation plan” claimed it would be launched within an hour of a US attack and would be accompanied by increased support for terrorist groups. “The US will be as surprised with Iranian military capabilities as the Israelis were with Hezbollah in last summer’s war in Lebanon,” he said.
LINK

And getting OUT of here won't be easy now... WonDeRful!
LINK

Underground Panther in the Sky    unknownnews@inbox.com


The level of societal damage will depend

by The Canadian

June 14, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
In the beginning...

I think the biggest homeland repercussions would be focused on the poor economic effects and the ensuing personal hardships caused by a likely sharp spike in the price of oil. The level of societal damage will depend on how well your fellow Americans get along when your society's engines are starved for fuel.

There is the potential for localized terror attacks, but the effect of these would be more an issue of psychological damage (unless of course you are in the wrong place at the wrong time)

Any use of WMD on homeland soil, I think, is quite remote. If such a thing were ever used, the games up.

time will tell...

The Canadian   

  Having long-since given up on the notion that there's anything the bastards in the White House wouldn't do, I don't think a nuclear strike on American soil can be ruled out. I suspect they'd seriously consider targeting a location perceived as "liberal" -- San Francisco comes to mind. That would be a few million fewer votes they'd need to steal, and of course, with the Republican criminal element's expert control of public dialogue and mass media, the response to this "terrorist attack" would be the instant enactment of jaw-droppingly tyrannical powers, and it would be virtually un-opposed, because those who opposed it would be rounded up.

Helen & Harry

The Canadian replies, Kathy Fisher replies, DanD replies
unknownnews@inbox.com


Jobs Americans won't do? Horse puckey.

by Kathy Fisher

June 14, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
Our leaders have failed us! They've been screwing around with other people's countries making deals with Mexico's leaders for decades. Hell where were Americans when Reagan gave that golden Palomino Horse to Mexico's then Presidente? All the sweet deals for American corporation exiting to south of the border. VIVAS EL NAFTA...

This screwed the Mexicans living in their own country too. How were they to earn a living, Come on this was all planned by our own home grown politicians, and every one turned a blind eye back then thinking HEY WON'T TAKE MY JOB!! Wrong again! the immigrant workers are just patsies, the American workers are left holding the rubber peach!

Hey Did you hear the latest? DEL MONTE got caught they sent hundreds of immigrant pickers back They quickly posted signs for 200 able warm bodies for hire and with in one hour AMERICANS who according to BUSH don't want to do THOSE kind of jobs were there in a heartbeat ready to work!

Kathy Fisher  (klfisher@webtv.net)   

  And for Del Monte, no punishment at all. Punishing the employers of illegal immigrants is *EXACTLY* what U.S. leaders *DON'T* want, because there are huge corporate profits being made off underpaid illegal foreign labor.

Here's a quick and easy solution to illegal immigration, an idea that would reduce illegal immigration far more effectively than any wall:

For the first offense, employers who hire illegal immigrants should be required to pay fines equal to 100 times the wages paid (and any whistleblowers should get 10% of that as a bounty). For second offenses the fine and bounty doubles, for third offenses it triples, etc.

Your eyes would blur at how quickly and comprehensively Del Monte would get out of the business of employing illegal immigrants, and how soon "illegal immigration" would be a memory or a problem.

It'll never happen, of course, because the same corporations that love cheap labor, also own both political parties. And all the hype about illegal immigration is just politics designed to keep people riled up, but never ever to solve the problem.

Helen & Harry unknownnews@inbox.com


Moving day

by Citizen M.

June 14, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
PLEASE POST AND FORWARD TO ALL WHO ARE MAD AS HELL!!

 
Moving Day at the White House

Saturday, 16 June 2007
9:00 AM - 5:00 PM

Organizer: Citizen M

Organizer Email:

MOVING DAY AT THE WHITE HOUSE!!!

The continued war mongering and war profiteering that is going on in this administration, is mind boggling. Despite the loud voices from all over this country, we are still ignored. The polls say most are against the current handling of the war…. Are you?

Citizens….. we have voted, protested, screamed and even gone to court- only to find Bush and his criminal cronies continue to profit off the lives of our family members. They butcher our environment. The economy is awful. Our rights are being removed. This administration has ruined our reputation. There needs to be a change.

Show your absolute outrage at this administration! What I want to do is send George W. Bush a moving box -- a moving box can only mean one thing -- I want you removed, you no longer represent me!

I am inviting everyone to join me and my friends in this action. Go in groups, go alone. Organize your own action. In order to really have an impact, we will need the help of thousands. I hope children, teens, parents, teachers, spiritual leaders, role models, political leaders, people from every walk of life -- send a moving box .

Everyone is encouraged to participate .Anyone that is frustrated about the current administration has an opportunity to join thousands and send this message to GWB. With your help this president will get our message. Imagine thousands of boxes littering the White House mail room.

If you would like to participate or want any further information please email me at moveoutnow@yahoo.com

WHEN: MONDAY JUNE 18TH-23RD

MAIN EVENT: JUNE 23RD

WHERE: Your local post office or mail facility.

WHO: Anyone who lives in the World that wishes to see an end to this administration. George W Bush 1600 Pennsylvania Ave, Washington DC, USA

Location: Your local post office

Citizen M.   

  I usually think such stunts are a waste of time, but I like this idea. Is it your idea, or are you just spreading it along?

An empty box weighs very little, even a big empty box, and it can probably be mailed for a buck or not much more. Beats the waste of money in sending a letter nobody will read or making a long distance call to an answering machine nobody will listen to.

And here's a helpful hint: If you don't want to go to the post office and wait in line, you can skip that step. You can just drop your package inside any standard drop box, so long as it weighs less than one pound. Affix proper postage -- 41¢ for the first ounce, 17¢ more for each additional ounce -- and address it to THE WHITE HOUSE, 1600 PENNSYLVANIA AVE, WASHINGTON DC 20500.

I would also suggest we get rid of the "end date". Nothing's going to happen by June 16, but I can't see any reason we should stop mailing the bastards empty boxes before they start using them to pack.

Helen & Harry unknownnews@inbox.com


Just a mind fuck

by Mr. Chuckles

June 14, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
Re Norman Spinrad

Spinrad is an angry guy. Maybe he really does see the future and has reason to be pissed. This book is an addition to other books that would be dystopian if they weren't so real. His best book by far is "Little Heroes"... And "Songs from the Stars" is great, with the Clear Blue Lou and Sunshine Sue characters (in a post-holocaust nirvana set in the Sierras where everyone drinks homebrew, smokes reef, and uses hang-gliders and sail-powered bikes...) "Greenhouse Summer" is scary. And this book...is just a mind fuck. I had to turn on some Dead to get my mind right -- then I will keep reading until it kills me...

Mr. Chuckles    unknownnews@inbox.com


Prepared for the worst

by Angry Annie

June 14, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
My computer has a nifty "word count" feature, so let's look at the numbers. In round one, Water butts and "Need I say more?", Pittershawn outworded Helen & Harry 378 to 130. That's almost 3 to 1. In round two, Where is my Anti-Defamation League?, Pittershawn outworded Helen & Harry 1,755 to 176, a ratio of almost exactly 10 to 1. In round three, Thank goodness for meditation and a peace-loving spirit, Pittershawn outworded Helen & Harry 3,188 to 143, or about 22 to 1. At this rate, Unknown News will be The Pittershawn Palmer Show by next week at this time. We're past the point where enough is enough already. Remember the Squango Rule.

Meanwhile, for those of us not driven crazy with Pittershawn's sad Jew hatred, I trust you and yours are prepared for the worst, because the worst will be upon us soon. If Bush launches an attack or blockade of Iran (and it's almost inconceivable that he won't) the blowback will be immediate and profound. China and Russia, of course, purchase large percentages of their oil from Iran -- a blockade or bombs that deny that oil to those countries will not leave Hu Jintao or Vlad Putin chuckling. They will be furious, as will millions of Muslims and Dick Cheney, a lot of very wild cards in a very risky, very stupid game of poker. And Cheney's not bluffing, he really is that stupid.

I would suggest having an exit strategy -- a place to hide, far from any urban area, as the urban areas will be locked down tighter than the Republican Convention of 2004, and if you're not 100% on board with the patriotically necessary permanent suspension of civil liberties, you'll be under arrest. Me, I have a friend who works on a farm, and I'm invited. I hope to be there before the sh*t hits the fan, which will be soon.

Angry Annie    unknownnews@inbox.com


Quick thinking

by Herb Ruhs, MD

June 14, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
War profiteers are worse than the enemy.

herb    unknownnews@inbox.com


Collective bad behavior

by Ann in the UK

June 14, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
Re Thank goodness for meditation and a peace-loving spirit

"Yes, that comment was a jab at the Jews, because, in fact, they have a history of collective bad behavior."
Sorry matey, if you want people to wade through to your seemingly over long and drawn out prattle, you're going to have to come up with a more convincing opening statement than that. Sadly, as soon as I read it, my mind automatically recalled the 'collective bad behavior' of so called Christians presently and throughout history who, whilst preaching the doctrines of peace, self control, love, tolerance, charity etc have in fact created a paradoxical world dominated by violence, debauchery, hatred, intolerance and greed.

Perhaps Jews do have "a history of collective bad behavior". I don't know. I haven't researched it and I certainly can't think of any comparable examples offhand. But, if they indeed have one, their "collective history of bad behavior" couldn't possibly be any worse than the historical and ongoing "collective bad behavior" of those who profess to be Christian which, unfortunately, I spent so much time recalling, I didn't have the time to read your rant.

Ann in the UK (Recovering Cathaholic)

Chris M. replies   
unknownnews@inbox.com


A Christian nation

by Mark H.

June 14, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
This is a Christian nation and you don't seem to be Christians. You're going to hell, I hope you know.

Mark H.   

  Christ would want nothing to do with governing America. But unscrupulous 'Christians' are happy to have your faith.

Helen & Harry unknownnews@inbox.com


Maybe it gets better, or I get more tolerant

by Siskiyousis

June 14, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
Re Norman Spinrad

First of all here is Twenty things you should know about corporate crime, by Russell Mokhiber, which is a measured and succinct version of your rant and more specific...

As for Spinrad, I did read Greenhouse Summer, and I don’t recall the writing being as sloppy as this latest one, but I’ve read I whole lot of stuff since then. I will say definitely that Olivia Butler (1947-2006) was a better writer in any genre, and doomsday scenarios were her metier also. Kurt Vonnegut he is not.

The plot-line in He Walked Among Us is barely visible among the dense verbiage he socks in around it. Needs a bit of editing and proofing, but my main question is when the hell did he write this? It is not current in terms of idiom and atmosphere. Either he put this together well over ten years ago, and maybe closer to fifteen, or he is just not keeping up with stuff going on now. Which is why I suspect he is shopping it at shareware...

Of course, I am now reading near the close of the second chapter and wishing it were on paper... so what do I know besides Guesstimation? Maybe it gets better, or I get more tolerant.

So far, I liked Greenhouse Summer better, and even (I hate to admit it) Little Heroes.

Siskiyousis    unknownnews@inbox.com


Anger is transformative

by Cassandra

June 14, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
Literally. I've heard this forever. Today I woke up mad as hell. On my way to an appointment I stopped at a little store where the same very nice lady waits on me on a semi-regular basis. She said 'Do you have a sister? Because we have a woman who comes in often who looks just like you'.

Now, I've got three pairs of shorts and usually wear a white shirt. In cold weather I wear jeans and one of a couple sweaters. I buy the same item whenever I go, but this lady wouldn't believe I was her regular customer, but a new one.

On a very un-PC note, the lady is from India, so maybe all middle-aged American ladies look alike to her, but I really, really doubt it.

hope y'all are doing well.

*           *           *
Re Can't find their socks

Yeah, I saw both hands too, but to me Limbaugh is so loathsome that I'll be glad if he can't get any gigs, although to paraphrase I'll defend to my last piece of chocolate his death to say it. Limbaugh's words simply aren't worth my life :)

In the urban area in which I live, sirens go off that sound the same sequence as 'Close Encounters of the Third Kind' and then one hears a crackly voice saying something. Surrounding areas probably don't have the public address systems, but we have multiple radio stations that air weather warnings . I wasn't really sure why only one station of three available was giving alerts.

Every time the weather system goes off, I start looking for lights in the sky or unusual new neighbors...

Cassandra   

  Really? Close Encounters? I loved that movie, but everywhere I've lived the air raid or weather warning sirens just blared like extra-loud ordinary sirens. I'd *LOVE* it if the sirens played the theme from Close Encounters. That would kinda take the sting out of World War III ...

Helen & Harry

Cassandra replies
unknownnews@inbox.com


It boils down to racial bigotry

by SirJ

June 14, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
A ten year jail sentence for a blow-job is revised to "just" two years, but he's still in jail. He has his own website: . The latest update, http://www.wilsonappeal.com/update.html , says:
Unfortunately, Genarlow's struggle is not over. A few hours after Judge Wilson's decision, Georgia Attorney General Thurbert Baker filed for an appeal, meaning that the Georgia Supreme Court will now determine Genarlow's fate. We asked the District Attorney to agree to bond but he did not so we have to wait until July 5th to try and get a bond from the Douglas County Superior Court.
What an idiotic waste of taxpayer's money! There is no principle of justice at stake. Perhaps it boils down to racial bigotry.

SirJ   

  Why isn't the state's attorney general being tarred and feathered? Well, because the victim is black and the state is Georgia.

And then again, far beyond Georgia and all across America, there's an urgent need for tar and feathers... Why do we the people put up with this crap?

Helen & Harry

SirJ replies
unknownnews@inbox.com


I've read enough of Pittershawn's blog to know there's a good soul writing it

by Rebecca

June 14, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
Re Thank goodness for meditation and a peace-loving spirit

I thought you were wrong, Helen, in making a vile assumption about Pittershawn. I've read enough of Pittershawn's blog to know there's a good soul writing it ... or I thought so ... but the admission, "Yes, that comment was a jab at the jews, because, in fact, they have a history of collective bad behavior" ... Collective blame, that's just inarguable bigotry, and anyone who doesn't say so is saying bigotry is OK. This is sad.

Rebecca   

  Agreed, and I have no questions about Pittershawn's soul, no hard feelings or anything, just ... boredom and sadness.

Helen & Harry unknownnews@inbox.com


Quit yer pointless yakking

by Tim M.

June 14, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
I don't go to your website to read about breastfeeding, the Jews, or whether the income tax is legal, and I think that most of your readers don't either. I don't mind when these subjects are touched upon, but it's a little off-putting when they become major topics of discussion.

Tim M.

Ann in the UK replies   
unknownnews@inbox.com


Twenty things

by Jeff in Illinois

June 14, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
I believe this is a very important article for all of us who are trying to understand what is happening to our country.

Twenty things we should know about corporate crime

Thank you for all you do to help our Country.

Jeff in Illinois    unknownnews@inbox.com


The only way in/out of Palestine

by E13

June 14, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
Hamas won. What will "politics of wishful thinking" do now?

The border to Egypt is in Gaza, only way out of the prison of Palestine, and to bring in money, people, weapons....Not to mention the weapons it found that Israel and the US have been pouring into Palestine to Fatah... Israel, US and the EU will never allows that... we can expect the bombing of Gaza any time now.

Rice's "politics of wishful thinking" & bombs may yet have a happy ending...

The propaganda machine will have to go into overdrive, so that people will not sympathize with the Palestinians....(who will not dare open their mouths for another 40 years)... we will see a lot of weeping Miri and self righteous Itzhak, an "oh we do so much want peace" Mark Regev, and bingo: Bush will have democratized another Middle Eastern country! We will also see the Presidential candidates falling over themselves supporting Israel and however this ends.

E13   

  OK, I'll probably be embarrassed for exposing my ignorance here, but my eyes tend to glaze over at Middle East politics so I don't know much about Gaza and Hamas. Can you or someone explain to me why it's -- apparently, judging from newscasts in America -- the worst thing in the world that Hamas has taken over Gaza? Doesn't Hamas have the backing of most of the people there? In a democracy, aren't "most of the people" supposed to run the government? What piece of the puzzle is missing in my head?

Helen & Harry

E13 replies
unknownnews@inbox.com


Gross profanity

by rjc

June 14, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
Re Norman Spinrad

I was under the impression that gross profanity was VERBOTEN on this web-site, Vty, ( please advise )

rjc   

  Sorry, but generally, I'm a big fan of profanity, the grosser the better. It makes the language colorful and entertaining.

I try to keep the website's front page free from fucks and shits, only because work filters can get office-hour surfers in trouble if naughty language is detected. So we have a bad language disclaimer on the front page, but after that, anything goes.

Helen & Harry

rjc replies
unknownnews@inbox.com


Well, this was an enlightening discussion

by pittershawn palmer

June 14, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
Re Thank goodness for meditation and a peace-loving spirit

I don't dislike Jews. And i'm sure you would perceive some of my comments as veiled. I actually expected that to be your response. To share MY personal observations does not constitute dislike. They are only my observations. Just as I observe many negative things amongst my black people, which I equally discuss.

As always, however, you and so many others have the convenient option of walking away when you are tired of and "impatient" with something you don't like or that makes you uncomfortable. Or that you don't agree with.

Walk a year in my shoes and you will see that no matter what, I cannot walk away from racial bias or these hard types of discussions. Must be real nice... sure wish I had that option. ALL white people of ALL religions and cultures can walk away when they wish. A white person of any religion or ethnicity can change their name, learn to speak like the locals and blend in here in america. I can't my dear. So again, I see in you the superior and matter-of-fact dismissal that I see in many who have the option of walking away when the conversation gets annoying or the person is perceived a certain way.

Again, must be real nice...i still admire and respect what you are attempting to do here. but i admonish you to not let age cloud your ability to learn something new. We are all here to learn. ALL of us. Until the day we die. And you need to realize that unlike you, I can't turn off my blackness when I get sick of the racist attitudes and commentary. but EVERY white person can...walk away...

Well, this was an enlightening discussion. I'm sure since you are now finished with me there is no choice but to end it here. Thanks.

It seems it was missed in the several places I wrote it that although I said jews, i assumed intelligent people would know I didn't mean ALL jews. But, I guess because everyone wants to insist and force the idea that I hate all jews, those repeated points I've made should be ignored. Ok. I think I get the picture on this. The jury is out, you have decided, I am guilty. funny how history doesn't change the way people in the world think and behave once they've decided something. guess it is time for me to be burned at the stake, huh? some of you sound like the deciders at the salem witch trials.

It seems it was also ignored that I have sent, twice, the Jews Against Zionism site, which I thought you would see shows my views. But, I guess because you are my deciders, that little bit should be ignored too and it should be pushed that I hate all jews. got you. i am dually put in my place. another unchanging event in history.

i find it equally interesting that everyone would assume that I am NOT jewish...i think that fact shows me all i need to know. yet another prejudice. i can almost bet we wouldn't be having this silly discussion if you knew the truth of my background. but you all have oddly, which you can't seem to see, assumed that i am not jewish. bet if i were saying something about blacks, no one would have opened their mouth to say a word, cause you know my race. but i talk about a religion, judaism and an ethnicity, jews and without knowing my history, i am accused. interesting.

Helen and Kirwan, I am annoyed with the two of you, just as you are annoyed with me. But unlike you, I would never have launched into an attack on your character. But you both launch into attacking mine, continue to ignore the things i've written to explain my thoughts, and wish to insist that i am veiling hatred for a group of people. and you wonder why i am writing about my disgust? who wouldn't?

You asked what Helen could have said besides what she said. She could have said anything instead of lodging a blanket accusation because of what she felt was a blanket statement. You can't plow into someone about what you feel is a blanket statement and then turn around and make a blanket statement. What makes you any better than me then? and why not have discourse around a person's views? if in fact i was someone who hated jews, this was all you guys opportunity to engage me to uncover what the issues are. for all you know i was gang raped by a bunch of jewish men. you know nothing about me. nothing. you know nothing about what i've experienced, yet instead of engaging me peacefully, you make assumptions. and refuse to back down from those assumptions without anything concrete to prove your point...only a few observations i have made that seem to rub you the wrong way because i've pointed them out are your sole method of concluding your beliefs.

Once again, because it seems folks have missed it the dozen times i've written it. i am against zionism. i believe that some jews are complicit in the behavior of zionists. someone changing to zionism doesn't remove the source of it. i do not place all jews under this same umbrella. and contrary to what you all might believe, by blanketing "zionism," you have done the exact same thing you continue to accuse me of. So, therefore, I could assume, based on your logic, that each of you are racist bigots, because you rail against zionism, when all zionists are most likely not for the negative behavior of the majority of zionists. all in no group are bad, no matter what the group says it stands for. so i would admonish you to make an attempt to take it easy on your racist bigoted comments against zionists and not blanket all of them under one umbrella. see now? how's that feel?

funny how when you, Kathy, writing, "my disapproval of israel doesn't make me anti-jew" will probably be heard and respected as true. but when i say i don't hate all jews, no dice. i hope you know that an israeli reading your thoughts on Israel won't see it the way you do, since just about all of them are jewish and all of them love their country, israel. just as when people from other countries say they hate america and its policies, we become uncomfortable because we are americans. we hate it when we are placed under the umbrella of "america." we don't like the "blanket" statements. and we believe those people to also be, some of them, anti-christian and anti- democracy.

look. this is done. you have decided to believe i hate all jews because i have pointed out a history of unsavory deeds by them. the fact that you, Helen and Kirwan, and whomever else, wishes to believe that says a lot about your way of thinking. it says that only what you think matters. very typical. very. and it also says that, judaism, is the only "code" word that draws your attention. forget that you blanket zionists, forget about all your other blanket statements. only when something is said about judaism is it important to squash all descent.

Oh, btw, i have never received any hate mail in my life. but, i suppose our little discussion could count as my first one. cause it seems this attack is definitely hate mail folder material. no?

folks, no need to say another word. let's just stick to the things that make YOU comfortable. you are my deciders and have decided, guilty. so let it be written, so let it be done. good night and good luck.

pittershawn palmer,  a state of consciousness   

  Of course, we'll be delighted to honor your request -- there's no need to say another word about it. Please. There are thousands of things more important to me than your opinions about Jews, or your hurt feelings at having your opinions about Jews disputed.

Helen & Harry

pittershawn palmer replies
unknownnews@inbox.com


Can't find their socks

by Cassandra

June 13, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
Re Dumbing it down, tarting it up

I was reading a book about women's suffrage before &after the Civil War years [when women's groups both worked with and clashed w/ groups supporting abolition of slavery and rights for blacks] and to some extent, standards was just as crappy then as in the '90s. That was a helluva shock, but says a lot about the US. We pride ourselves on freedom of the press. The press prides itself of leading the people into believing lies and, lately, into disaster.

*           *           *
Re Your emotional crap

At the moment, that person probably didn't have anything more important to focus on than Paris. Sounds like you got a letter from someone who's physically clean from their drug of choice and not doing well, or perhaps trying to detox. Maybe someone who served more time for a lesser offense. Some processes are so consuming that people really can't focus on the important things. It's as if they will not escape a burning building because they can't find their socks.

I once met a guy who said [although not to me] after he got clean from heroin the first time, "I learned you can't take that shit every day". Some addicts joke. Others spew their rage and misery at others.

Please don't take it personally.

*           *           *
Broward may cancel deal with radio station because it airs Rush Limbaugh
 
Excerpt: "It's a shame that people would let politics get in the way of saving lives in a hurricane," Charles said.

Yep. We saw that with Katrina.

 
Excerpt: Judy Sarver, the county's public communications director, said WFTL and WLRN also offered to take on the role, but that she and other emergency planners preferred WIOD because of its signal strength, numerous FM sister stations and willingness to give Broward top play.

The radio station that had the deal has the option not to run Limbaugh. It's not [as you've said many times] censorship to choose to air everyone who has a show. There are too many venues for someone like Limbaugh, who is spewing hatred as entertainment and news commentary, to be heard, and not enough venues for people who aren't.

Cassandra   

  Wow, that's news to me. I don't even know what I think about it. On the one hand, it seems pretty dang petty for Dems to do this, and anyway, why does only one station provide emergency information for an urban area?

But on the other hand, and I like the other hand better, I've long thought, as part of the license to broadcast on the public airwaves, stations ought to be prohibited from pooping in the public discourse by airing flat-out political lies. And Limbaugh's a serial liar, who never issues a correction.

Helen & Harry

Cassandra replies
unknownnews@inbox.com


Well, THAT worked, world: Hamas on the verge of a complete conquest of the Gaza Strip

by E13

June 13, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
Hamas takes fight to Gaza City; 27 killed in clashes

Der Spiegel wrote, oh about a year and a half ago, that Hamas was about to go down to its knees... any minute....

The world decided to starve them, ignore them, call them terrorists, stop giving them money, and definitely never ever to talk to them....and to boost that weak little man Abbas (all promoted by the brilliant tacticians in the US and Israel, and nodded to by the other idiots running this brave new world.)

and it seems to finally be paying off.

E13    unknownnews@inbox.com


On ice

by Siskiyousis

June 13, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
I was grateful to see this: "I make at least one loaf of bread every week. As soon as the loaf is out of the baking pan, it has to be sliced and each slice sealed into a sandwich baggie and then frozen until needed. This is the best way to have fresh white bread as needed." I stopped baking bread long ago 'cause I live alone and would gorge on bread when I baked it.
Siskiyousis   


Too much to face

by unsigned

June 13, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
Re Nuremberg prosecutor says he's aghast at Guantanamo

It's because most people don't want to believe that their government is run by a bunch of crooks, liars, gangsters, and murderers. No matter now bad things get, hardly anyone wants to admit the truth if it ever gets that bad -- it would be too much to face. It's much easier to delude yourself. It always is.

unsigned    unknownnews@inbox.com


Norman Spinrad

by Mr. Chuckles

June 13, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
Norman Spinrad's "shareware" sci-fi novel, "He Walked Among Us", copyright 2002:

HTML file

RTF file

note: google will convert .rtf into html for you if you ask nicely.

This is a very entertaining book. Excellent. Not about the 2nd coming of Christ, so don't let the title put you off. If you can't afford to *buy* Spinrad's "Greenhouse Summer" to learn about how in the future the Military-Industrial complex will shift gears to Climate Engineering For Terra Bucks, then this is the right fucking book for you, cheapskate :-)

By the way, we are already seeing "Big Climate" joining Big Pharma, Big Oil, yada yada, at the public feedtroughs. Big Climate just loves Democrats!!!

And what I really appreciate is the synergy between the Military-Industrial-Entertainment complex and the Climate Engineering complex. First the M-I-E fucks everything up and bills you a trillion dollars. Then Big Climate promises to remediate everything for two trillion. And what, you think the Republicans are going to vote for anything Green unless they get a taste of the action? Fuck no.

But there's enough payola for everyone... so you get your G.W. Bushes fucking up the environment for eight solid years -- dynamiting entire mountains and filling in streams for fuck's sake. Then you get eight years of a craphead Democrat to start work undoing the previous eight years. At which point everyone has had it up to fucking *here* with the Democrats and votes R again -- and the cycle starts over! It is so elegant! Like double entry accounting, not one cent is ever lost to the profiteers, even though sometimes they let other people hold the money for a while :-)

Mr. Chuckles

Mr. Chuckles replies, rjc replies, Siskiyousis replies   
unknownnews@inbox.com


Surprise, surprise

by Chris M.

June 13, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
Lessons of Waco, Ruby Ridge applied at Plainfield

The only reason I'm citing this is for the following comments.
 
Chris E., Ossipee: "Americans from coast to cost are quickly learning the truth. There is no law that makes any American Citizen who works and lives in the United States of America liable or responsible to pay an income tax. Individuals only become liable to pay the income tax when they ""voluntarily"" file a tax return. That the money they have paid in income taxes all their lives did not pay for services of the government but paid to the stock holders of the Federal Reserve, mostly foreign banks. They have used this stolen capital to buy what was once our government. This is a scam of unbelievable proportions. Americans have been drained of their wealth for almost one hundred years. The Browns have committed no crime -- the crime was committed by the court -- We need to take this country back."

 Suzanne H., Rochester: "When reading this article, it's clear that Mr. Potok is coming from a pro-government perspective. The reasoning behind what caused this scenario hasn't been discussed and by that I mean, the Brown's argument that the IRS was unresponsive to their numerous requests to be shown the black and white paper and ink law that states they are compelled to pay federal income tax. I find it curious that Mr. Potok expresses that Mr. Brown has "threatened" violence whenever Mr. Brown has simply stated his reaction would be one of defense. A defense is not a violent action, it is a defense. What exactly is federal military force against civilians? I'd suggest it's a threat of violence. Frankly, I'm certain I'm not alone in my loathe and contempt for the IRS and the ever growing federal government. It's greatly disturbing to me that we have programs instituted to protect illegal immigrants in this country, immigrants who have already broke our law by entering illegally and many who further break the law by falsifying and in some cases, stealing identification but our own federal government is implicit in it's aim to seize and destroy the labors of our fellow countrymen, for simply asking to see, where in our laws it state they are compelled to pay federal income tax."

And there are a lot of people who feel the same way and would love nothing better than to have an excuse to take pot shots at the powers that be. So to those who think that everyone in this country would roll over and let a dictatorship take over, they might be in for a surprise. The best part of our current government is that most distrust it and more than a few hate it completely. Both left, right and the middle.

*           *           *
Joe Lieberman is at it again
by Wesley Clark
 
Excerpt: After wrongly supporting George W. Bush's strategic blunder of attacking Iraq, and continuing to support Bush's failed policies after the invasion, Senator Joe Lieberman made irresponsible comments this weekend regarding military action against Iran.

On CBS's Face the Nation, Lieberman said, "If [the Iranians] don't play by the rules, we've got to use our force, and to me, that would include taking military action to stop them from doing what they're doing."

This type of "tough-talk" by the Bush Administration and folks like Senator Joe Lieberman is why VoteVets.org and I collaborated to create StopIranWar.com, calling for heavy diplomatic, economic, and political action to discourage the acquisition of nuclear capabilities by the Iranian government.

There is only one reason that Joltin' Joe wants this and that is because of his (surprise surprise) blind support for Israel. And the Only reason Israel is scared shitless of Iran getting nukes is because they could no longer get away with murder in the region. They would have to stop all there bull crap activities in Palestine. They would no longer be able to bully every one cause there would be a new sheriff in town. Would could we do ?? Not much, Russia would back Iran of course.

Chris M.    unknownnews@inbox.com


A "57-variety mutt"

by kirwan

June 13, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
Re A sin and a travesty

EXCELLENT article Kathy!

This is exactly what I was talking about, because your examples are case specific. Pittershawn is focused on the sins of the past which of course were horrendous, but their resolution is not furthered by continuing to blame the offspring down to the present generations.

We owe history the respect of KNOWING what happened and why. We do not owe anyone the rest of our natural lives for what previous generations have done. But we also owe ourselves the truth of what happened, so that, from this knowledge people can break with the crimes of previous generations and begin to live lives that reflect what we have come to understand from both history and our own experiences.

I am fortunate in that I'm a "57-variety mutt" when it comes to genealogy. There's literally some of everything in my family tree, except perhaps black, and that's probably only because someone either lied or forgot. We are all only a few degrees apart when it comes to being related to any issue -- racially, emotionally, and in most cases physically. We bleed the same blood, and dream the same dreams. No one is served by castigating anyone else for the sins of the past, because each of us has the chance to deal with those issues by the way we live now and tomorrow. (in the case of Americans -- up until Bush).

It's true that in many if not most of the nation states where the USA fomented insurrection and chaos -- that's no longer true. Still, we owe those people far more than most recognize today: because we ruined not only their lives but both their past and their futures. We must begin to learn how to "pay-everything-forward." Because life is so short and we are so very far behind in everything that has to do with the human experience.

Everyone could go down the path that Pittershawn has emphasized, but that only serves to keep the hate alive. The criminal behavior of those who continue the course that history has shown took place, is not useful, if the goal is to cleanse those open wounds that still bleed -- regardless of when the crimes were committed.

In America's case we have chosen a path of divisions and blame: as indicated by Pete Hamill in a 1994 article he wrote for Esquire. And since that time we have chosen only to make everything worse. If we apply what we know about ourselves and the current situations: then we must do better in every area of life -- or we shall all remain trapped in that dead-end trap of blame and hate.

Endgame -- Revisited

*           *           *
Americans need a new mantra:

"NO" is the only thing this government should hear, to everything they are proposing, from the majority of the people they want to RULE. If all of us just did this in both thought and deed, then this government will fail, and we could begin again.

The entire fabric of what was 'government' is rotten to the core, because each one of almost all of them continues to make decisions based solely on their own personal gains that have nothing to do with their offices, or with the public's welfare. They have in essence "sold their reputations for a song" and in that bargain condemned us all to an inferno of slavery, death and taxes that will crush us into oblivion -- NO -- is the only cry that we can still make.

If that battle-cry is loud enough and often enough it would begin to take hold -- to the point that things would have to change. Imagine just 100,000 people in front of the Tarnished House, the Congress & the Supreme Court -- in three demonstrations ALL chanting that one simple word, simultaneously -- if that reached the airwaves this could mark a new beginning?

They NEED us far more than we "need" them.

kirwan,  Kirwan Studios

pittershawn palmer replies   
unknownnews@inbox.com


Corruption at the top

by Mr Blonde

June 13, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
Re Nuremberg prosecutor says he's aghast at Guantanamo

They didn't forget the "difference from right and wrong", they simply voted in someone that was willing to use every means possible to attain absolute power, and then they were trapped through propaganda or violence, and ignorance.

Most countries around the world still keep the death penalty as an exception used for wartime, exactly so they can execute anyone that disobeys orders or participates in conspiracies to overthrow government, sometimes in summary executions, with out any court of law -- being it partial (military) or not.

Civilians and common German soldiers including their officials did nothing wrong, in the same way that their American, Canadian, British etc, counterparts did their duty as they were commanded.

Had Hitler clearly admitted he wanted to conquer all territories of Germanic influence -- and that it might result in another world war -- the Nazi party would have not risen to power. Any disclosure of the "final solution" (to the "Jewish question"), and that party would have been dismembered, weather in power or not -- that is why they kept it a secret throughout the war.

Hitler only needed the money of the corporations, and the votes of the peasants. Propaganda is more powerful then isolated voices of free speech, or even common sense.

Corruption at the top makes it possible in any system.

Powers are already concentrated in the president of the US, and he has obtained even more. Is he corrupt?

Mr Blonde    unknownnews@inbox.com


Convoluted

by Rolling Division

June 13, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
Re Nuremberg prosecutor says he's aghast at Guantanamo

This is just a convoluted way of calling the Bush administration Nazis and equating Bush to Hitler. Blasé.

Rolling Division   

  I didn't intend to be "convoluted". It needs to be said directly, bluntly, and I think, loudly, right at your ear.

Helen & Harry unknownnews@inbox.com


RSS won't feed

by Mike S.

June 13, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
I was unable to subscribe to any of your RSS feeds. can you assist ? Do you also send out any sort of e-newsletter or other items?

Mike S.    unknownnews@inbox.com

  No email alerts, sorry. The list got so big my free email service threatened to shut me down.

As for RSS, I'm sorry, I just can't figure it out. I've tried and tried, but it's over my head and beyond my spectroscopic ken. If you have a website, the html listed on our RSS page should work, but if you don't do HTML all I can tell you is that we update the main page once a week, Monday late morning, and we update the dialogue page once daily. :)

Helen & Harry unknownnews@inbox.com


We'll always have Paris

by DanD

June 13, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
Re Your emotional crap

Sorry thunderboltsnake, but I have to tell you that you don't know the slightest of what you're talkin' about. I currently live in the Greater Los Angeles community. As a fact, the "average" person who gets popped -- even a second time -- driving without a license (sans any auto accident and/or collateral DUI) will definitely NOT spend 45 days down in the LA County Jail (Twin Towers). This is because that gulag is already so horribly overcrowded with really badass gangbanger types and other violent crooks that any milque-toast shit like what poor clueless Paris was arrested for MIGHT spend 2 or 3 days max in that slammer before getting tossed out to make room for the really evil shit.

I know this 'cause a friend of mine got arrested making a terrorist threat, had 150K bail set, AND STILL got OR'd (own recognizance) after six days simply because he wasn't deemed to be enough of a threat! (It was ultimately determined six months down the line that he hadn't made that threat.)

THE ONLY REASON why they're so stickin the low-rent thumbscrews to Hilton is specifically for the side-show quality of its distraction. Are we hearing about high crimes and misdemeanors that are undoubtedly happening at the highest levels of American government? Nah, why report on that boring shit when you have Paris Hilton heartbreakingly crying out to momma?

I still can't tell though whether PH really is getting fucked over or she's just a willingly shill playing out a pre-composed part in order to keep the greater unwashed masses terminally distracted.

The obtuse level of attention being expended on her makes me kinda' suspicious.

Certainly with the quality of lawyers she retains and the piddly-shit charge she's probably guilty of, it shoulda' never even got to court.

DanD    unknownnews@inbox.com


Exactly the same thing

by Phil M.

June 13, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
Re Nuremberg prosecutor says he's aghast at Guantanamo

America is doing exactly the same thing that Hitler did with the volksgemeinschaft. You keep close tabs on public opinion, pushing them just far enough and then you reward them when needed. People think Hitler ruled by fiat without concern for the people, but the truth is he took the pulse all the time. Granted bush hasn't given out the furniture of deported jews, but he did lure people with the promise of cheap oil.

Phil M.    unknownnews@inbox.com


Thank goodness for meditation and a peace-loving spirit

by pittershawn palmer

June 13, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
Re Where is my Anti-Defamation League?

Ok.

Yes, that comment was a jab at the jews, because, in fact, they have a history of collective bad behavior. Although you may attempt to view those black teenagers in a way that makes blacks seem collectively bad, you and i both know you would be wrong. What have blacks, prior to slavery in America (and apartheid in africa), ever done to any white person or jewish person. What? There is virtually no history that shows blacks have done anything to whites or jews.

Yet, it was the Jews and whites, who enslaved my black people and my indian brothers and sisters. It was the Jews whose ships were used to bring black slaves to america. so yes, it was a jab at the jews in the context of history. look at what is happening in palestine. My pointing out that columbus was a jew, is to point out that NOTHING about their invasive, murdering, raping, pillaging behavior has changed.

Further, to make a jab at the jews, does not equal hatred. your comment that i seem to be a jew-hater, reeks of brainwashing. Why does a jab at the behavior of a group, which many can see is collective, even though we know it isn't EVERY single one of them, considered hating? why would you take it that far? can't you see the wrong in doing that? it is just common sense that a person can make an observation, without any hatred being connected to it. yet, you want to connect my "observation" with hatred. That is unfair and extremely disingenuous. i have been reading a lot of things on your website and find you to be very smart and insightful. actually, fairly brilliant. so i must give back what you have given to me by saying that i am disappointed in you for being so shortsighted in the way you analyzed my comments.

What on earth have the palestinians done to the israeli/jews? Do people even know that for every ONE Israeli, about 50 palestinians are slaughtered? Or more! Yet, when this bad behavior is pointed out in the context of their jewry, everyone jumps to their defense, even those who are not jewish.

Yes, it was a jab at them. but a jab does not, again, equal hatred or anti anything. and i am offended that I should be labeled as hating jews when THEY are the ones performing the hateful acts. I have never killed a soul in my life. Columbus murdered millions who did nothing to him. Yet, someone could have the nerve to label me as hating!? How can you not see the sickness in that kind of thinking, Helen? That is insane. further, if i were someone who hated, i WOULD have every right to hate Columbus and harbor that hate within the context of his ethnicity/religion. and why you say? because those are the only ones who did it to my ancestors in this country. Just like slavery in america. blacks and indians have EVERY right to hate whites collectively, because it was 95% whites and jews who enslaved us, and brutally I might add. even still, knowing this, I hate no one. i merely make observations. but believe me, i above ANYONE else, has the right to hate, not whites or jews. if i do dislike anyone, it would be those who murder people.

you come into my house. kick your feet up on my chair, then tell me while holding a gun to my head, that not only do i no longer have the rights to my bedroom, but to the fridge as well. and when i say, no, this is my house and you are invading my space, YOU want to call ME the terrorist if I decide to attempt to blast your behind out of my bedroom.

Helen, all said, I still respect you. Didn't stop actually. I have not seen anything on your website to indicate that you do not mean well. I know you do and like most, you are trying your best, as am I. But i think you should be more discerning when claiming that someone is a hater, when they have not displayed nor said anything hateful. because no matter what you are attempting to believe, my comment said nothing that would indicate to you that i hate anyone. that is a label you have chosen because of my observation, and frankly, i feel, because you are mimicking what everyone else tends to say when it is pointed out that collectively, there is something terribly wrong happening in this country and abroad.

And frankly, I think more non-jewish white people need to see that they too are entangled in the madness. Because history shows, sadly, that the majority of slave owners in america, were in fact jews. further, how is your criticism of israel, which is a blanket criticism by the way, any different than my blanket criticism of columbus to show that their behavior is historical? by criticizing "israel" you include ALL israelites. but in your heart, you know it is not EVERYONE in israel that you mean. you know this because you know your intention. you know there is no other term you can use but israel. but when i say jews, you someone want to believe that i hate, as though your heart is more genuine and understood than my heart. uncool, helen. very uncool. you would not like it if i were to say you are a hater of the israelis when you comment on their behavior, because you know that was not your intent when pointing out their problems. but suddenly, you wish to make my intent more harmful than your intent. i think deep down you know that is wrong and unfair.

Bottom line, i don't hate any one group, even when they display bad behavior. but i don't think that means i cannot point out my observations. and i think i should be able to do that without the erroneous claim that I "hate." It is a silly connection that does not logically follow.

They took pains to point out his faith, but did not take the same pains to point out his butchery. How convenient.

If a group of black people butchered a group of whites, ALL pains would have been taken to point out their butchery connected to their race, religion or ethnicity. As it had been throughout slavery and is still now.

"Time uncovers all truths. Even those we attempt to ignore."
Jade Sahnna                     

Hating Jews in context: Unlike you, Germans don't make me cringe, I am fond of asians, particularly buddhists, i think my black people have many issues, just as I think they are the greatest. I think some palestinians have problems, just as I think the great majority have all rights to be thoroughly pissed the hell off. I think many christians are cultish, just as i think many of them are great people. i think some islamics are radicals, but also thing a great many of them just want to practice their muslim religion in peace. i think a great many jews have been the biggest liars and murderers in history, but i equally believe that many of them are very devout and wonderful people, hence my appreciation for the jews against zionism (jewsagainstzionism.com), of who I link to on my website. smart guys. they are telling it like it is about their own. and they are rabbis.

i think that as a whole (here comes the blanket) christians, muslims, jews have been terrible murderers in history, all in the name of their religion. the christians had their turn. we blanketed their bad behavior in every history book you can find. the muslims had/have their turn, we blanket their bad behavior in every history book and recent news reports. but i suppose the jews are exempt from their turn to be blanketed, even though they to this day continue to commit horrible murders (yes, and many more groups do as well). I heard no one balking when the Hutus in Rwanda were blanketed. Remember, not ALL hutus participated in the genocide. But when someone ELSE says the hutus were murdering the tutsis, they get the respect of it being understood that they don't mean all of the hutus. even though it was generally observed that it was a great majority of the hutus that participated. But not me, huh?

I think a lot of you are dishonest. and sadly, you jump to cry, don't blanket this group, when in this country, many of you were the first to start blanketing groups of people--violently. communist! this one is a communist! that one is a communist! blankets for everyone but a few.

I have never heard anything so maddening. and all the while, no one can see that when someone, at least myself, mentions a group, it should be OBVIOUS that I don't mean the whole lot of them. Maybe that is what YOU do, but I don't do that. So please, stop deflecting who YOU are on me. to say the jews means that like our blanket of the hutus, muslims, christians, etc., we mean a majority has been found to be doing something unfavorable. no one typically sees anything wrong with mentioning what they observe about other cultures, races, religions and ethnicities, unless of course when jews are mentioned. note that in many cases, there is in fact a group system of behavior when it comes to certain things--it is natural to protect and defend ones group. that goes for all humans, all ethnicities, religions and races. it is also natural in dialogue to say, africans this, asians that, christians this, catholic priests that. the balk is never heard. but only with one group is the stomping and screaming and kicking as loud as possible. and you wish to call me a hater? i have learned in life that it is always the one who is the most wrong who screams the loudest. it is always those who wish to quell truth who are the first to be violent in words and deeds and, might I add, accusatory.

There is an old saying, a hit dog with holler.

All written, I am glad I don't have such a problem as "cringing" when listening to another group's accent. Seems like a very personal issue. And I am equally glad I don't have the problem of not trusting Asians. I'm sure that some have done things that would bring on that reaction, but when something wrong is done to someone, isn't it typical to feel scared of others from that group? when a woman is raped, doesn't she now have a problem with "men" in general? the micro makes the macro more evident. each of our "experiences" guide our judgment. it is emotionally rooted for many.

As for things snowballing, there will be none of that on my end. because i don't hate anyone (just observant). and lord knows, with the experiences I've had with white people of all types, I should. Thank goodness for meditation and a peace loving spirit.

A "57-variety mutt": Actually, I am not focused on the sins of the past. All these issues are here and now that I speak of. I think we can all see that. So to say that I am only focusing on the past isn't true at all. And i think you know that.

Coming from Jamaica, West Indies, I am also a mutt. My great and great great ancestors (grandparents etc.) were irish, scottish, german, east indian, asian mix, and, of course, black. however, i most certainly look black.

For me, it is not about division or blame. It is about pointing out what the issues are. If we don't recognize where a sickness is located in our body, how do we treat it? We have to say, it is my leg that has gangrene, or it is my eye that is going blind. We cannot heal our eye by focusing on our foot and vice versa. It is in pointing out where a problem is that we can fix it. further, if someone is sick, they cannot expect to go on, 1. pretending that they are not sick and 2. bringing that sickness to the village to destroy everyone else.

if someone contracted a disease that could spread and kill everyone in the village, wouldn't that person be quarantined? i think to recognize the wisdom in seeing sickness for what it is, both the sick and the healthy, is how we can truly heal. we cannot ignore sickness.

i also think it is unfair to say that i am keeping "hate alive." That is a very harsh accusation. comments like that actually are what could keep hate alive. because as i sit here, i am still disenfranchised. no one is healing my wounds. instead, they deflect blame without a word of apology. not one word. and, they accuse folks like myself of keeping hate alive and wonder why we are aggravated at times. unlike myself, who is very open to discourse without feeling angry, many in my position are not, and have no understanding of how to heal themselves and shield themselves from hate.

also, we cannot shrink from the truths you mentioned. but i find it interesting that it is ok to speak the truth when it serves someone, but not ok when that truth makes the receiver uncomfortable. only when we are not at the negative end of the truth do we feel we must express truth? I see. ok. i think that is what is going on here. and i think we ALL need to wake up and see that.

I often chuckle to myself when I read certain things. i trust that many will want to dismiss me after this. but i am, and many of my black, indian and african brethren, are accustomed to this kind of behavior. when we talk and it hurts the aggressor (or makes them feel profoundly guilty) the first defense mechanism is to call us angry or hateful. it is an everyday occurrence for us, even amongst those of us who have never laid a hand on another human being in our life, never raised our voice at anyone, or never cursed out anyone in anger. even when we peacefully express our grievances, we are labeled as angry and inciting hate.

In my circles, those of blacks, indians, africans, arabs, we talk about these things all the time. We know all too well how all "others" quickly begin to deflect their negative way of being onto us. when we try to talk about our issues, we are perceived as angry. contrary to what you might believe, this is ALWAYS how we are perceived when we want to talk about what pains us in an effort to heal. it seems only our community gets this kind of push back when we discuss our issues and disappointments.

when one goes to a psychiatrist in this country, the first thing that is understood in order to get to healing is to talk about what hurts. talk about what makes you angry. it is encouraged that they "get it out" in order to move to the next level of healing. they do this because they recognize that it is how we heal, by admitting what is making us sick. they are then encouraged to confront whomever was their aggressor to get it out and tell their rapist or mother or father that they are displeased with what they did. we know the drill on this.

but i suppose all the above mentioned groups do not have the right to go through this. we do not have the right to express what ails us without being labeled. because it makes others feel guilty, we shouldn't say anything, because we are promoting "hate."

My poor daughters are born into this kind of society. This society tells my daughters that if they experience racism, which they inevitably will, they are taught, by many here, that they should not say anything about their pain. They should not even peacefully confront those who are causing them the pain. Because if they do, they are promoting hate. They are not helping to heal. I ask you, when someone says something racist to my children, who is the one not promoting peace but promoting hate? Why is that if they decide to respond, they are labeled as though they are the aggressor?

Frankly, the responses of many of you is standard operating procedure. you may think i have not seen this across the board, but some of you have responded in the exact way that many of my brothers and sisters speak about. i became a part of this circle because i never wanted to be like many of my brothers and sisters who now believe that ALL white people are the same. I joined this circle because I am forever the optimist. I always want to believe that there are a few good apples in any group.

i have sadly been disappointed on many levels and having friends whom i've shared these conversations with say, "see, i told you." you have no idea how painful it is to hear my people say those things. i am always trying to say, let's all talk to each other. share our experiences and our view points. i was sharply admonished not to be so open with the realities of black life. i am sad to say that i now see why i was given this warning. i am terribly disappointed. and even still, i am hopeful that some will see what is going on. be honest. be open. be a part of the healing process without deflecting. i am still hopeful. but the pain of this reality is disconcerting.

One friend said to me, "pittershawn, you will never change how they see us. They always live with that Masters of the Universe attitude and believe they should not apologize for the sins of their fathers and the sins of those STILL living." He said that even those who purport to not be racist, are often more subconsciously racist than they realize. I still cannot believe it. but there is an undertone from some in this group that is sadly causing that to ring true. Maybe it is not intentional. I believe that it probably isn't. but what has been going back and forth over the last few days has proven to be an interesting discovery.

i hope my brethren are wrong. i hope for the sake of all of us, black and white.

Soren Kierkegaard once wrote:

"It happened that a fire broke out backstage in a theatre. The clown came out to inform the public. They thought it was just a jest and applauded. He repeated his warning, they shouted even louder. So I think the world will come to an end amid general applause from all the wits, who believe that it is a joke."

pittershawn palmer,  a state of consciousness   

  Maybe you expect a point-by-point response, but I'm not going to spend hours and hours chatting about this. Bigotry is wrong. The end.

And of course, some of your points are perfectly reasonable, and you're very intelligent, so I think you know what's valid in your comments, and what's veiled. You've had this argument before, perhaps, and perhaps you enjoy it? I don't.

I'm getting old and impatient, Pittershawn, so ... is this almost over? The more words you type about Jews, the greater the passion you put into your feelings about Jews, the less point I see in making any response.

Helen & Harry

pittershawn palmer replies, Grandpa replies Angry Annie replies, Ann in the UK replies, Rebecca replies
unknownnews@inbox.com

  PS. Sometimes I use the term "Jew-hater," because "anti-Semite" is a misnomer (Arabs being as Semitic as Jews). And I'm sure I could've been nicer about it, but I also use the term "Jew-hater" to describe someone who doesn't like Jews.



Letter to America

by T.R.

June 12, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
Re Nuremberg prosecutor says he's aghast at Guantanamo

Hi America,

First of all I'm not writing this to offend you; this is my genuine opinion.

I'm actually attached to America because I spent part of my life there.

I just want to say you're probably fucked good this time. Sorry to say that but as a whole you earned it by being so complacent and ignorant. And so did the Germans. And so will many others who take their freedom for granted. You're so inhumane as a country from my point of view that I don't even feel much pity for you since you seem like something totally alien.

I pity you -- The people at whose cost this sick thing is going on, and the people who will suffer during the collapse. However they are only worth saving (if we consider rebuilding the nation) if they get the message why and when they gave this situation a hand. Otherwise they're just as wasted as the country from which they're suffering.

Anyway just so you don't feel alone my country is heading the same direction. still we're in the same stadium as you were 20 years ago so there's still hope, although in the long run I doubt it. Actually I'm thinking of moving to a different country in a couple of years.

I'll just be complacent in a different way: I'll run so as not to get f'ed like you had been.

T.R. in Poland    unknownnews@inbox.com


Deaf shouting at the deaf

by Chris M.

June 12, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
Thompson puts together a foreign policy team