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Dialogue for Saturday, Oct. 13, 2007 

Assorted slime balls
by Chris M.

Defending freedom
and the Constitution

by Mr. Chuckles

Greedy lipstick barons
by J. S. Magruder

No absolutes
by Siskiyousis

  Rule of law is the only real
alternative to rule of despots

by Tony K.

An inconvenient question
by Herb Ruhs, MD

Nooses
by Zebra

Seize it, and keep it
by JR Mooneyham

 

Assorted slime balls

by Chris M.

Oct. 13, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
Re It's a mad, mad, mad, Milgram world

Ah, but it's not just those over slime balls. It's also the ones like David Brooks and William Kristol and others. All those who supported Reagan and Nixon and Bush I and Bush II. They're just as bad and just a cold and just as self centered, just not as openly abusive about it.

Chris M.  unknownnews@inbox.com



Defending freedom and the Constitution

by Mr. Chuckles

Oct. 13, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
I just watched a 20 minute interview with Ron Paul on PBS's News Hour with Jim Lehrer. He represents my views 100%.

I think John Edwards needs to change course dramatically -- which he might as well because otherwise he is going to lose anyway, so why not start defending freedom and the Constitution and go out with some integrity?

Mr. Chuckles 

  I'm guessing you mean Ron Paul represented your views 100% on the issues that were raised in that interview? He's right about a lot of things, righter than anyone else running on numerous issues. But because he's right on issues that involve a hell of a lot of money, the powers that be won't let him anywhere near the nomination.

I could support Paul on principle, though, if he wasn't so sickeningly wrong on the principles and issues that get less attention. Abortion, immigration, citizenship, "state's rights", etc. Ron Paul's integrity is the kind of integrity that has no problem constructing giant walls along the Mexican border, or telling women they can't have an abortion or even birth control, denying rights to gays and health care to the sick and citizenship to Hispanics born in America, etc.

He's just another fundamentalist, only where the Christian fundamentalists call for a literal interpretation of the Bible, Ron Paul calls for a literal interpretation of the Constitution. He's not a lot less scary to me than Pat Robertson or Jimmy Swaggart -- it's still blind faith that some ancient text has the absolute answer to every question.

Helen & Harry 

Mr. Chuckles replies, Siskiyousis replies
unknownnews@inbox.com



Greedy lipstick barons

by J. S. Magruder

Oct. 13, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
Re On not dying from salmonella

Food safety is so very important. Something that always concerns me is the approach seniors take to discarding old food-they don't. Maybe it has something to do with scarcity during the Depression, but I used to visit my dad and begin by tossing clearly spoiled food out of the fridge. He was almost always sick with some sort of "stomach bug" but refused to acknowledge the possibility that it was food borne illness. Sort of funny (not in an "ha ha" way) given that he was a food distributor! Good Lord, the things I've seen.

If you want a recipe for pot-pie that won't kill you (assuming you can follow directions) come on over to my kitchen and I'll show you how to do it.

I found out today that our son's brand of oatmeal has been recalled, and apparently the lipstick I've been wearing for years is loaded with lead. Sad really, just imagine how smart I could have been were it not for the greedy lipstick barons knocking my IQ into the cellar with their lead tainted offerings. They promised me fuller, sensual lips and all I got was a lifetime of underachievement (and that undergraduate degree in Anthropology, which I never would have gone for had I not been lead poisoned. Nay, I could be an investment banker today had I resisted the lure of Love That Red, which I only bought because of the name, though in retrospect, it's pretty clear they didn't mean Bob Avakian).

J.S. Magruder  (whynotresist.blogsome.com) 

  I don't know if it's just me or just the news I've been noticing, but it feels like we're seeing recalls at twice the usual rate the past few weeks. Just more evidence, probably, that the wheels are wobbling and about to fall off. Really, how many cronies can you install, how many years can you make it federal policy to turn a blind eye to safety issues, before poisons pop up everywhere in everything. Lipstick, fer cripe's sake.

I appreciate the pot pie proposal, but you'll have to do the cooking. I've grown lazy and short-tempered in my middle-age -- I no longer attempt recipes with more than about 4-5 ingredients, or anything that looks like more than about ten minutes work. You can't sneak a pot pie past those parameters, can you?

Helen & Harry 

J. S. Magruder replies
unknownnews@inbox.com



No absolutes

by Siskiyousis

Oct. 13, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
Re Defending freedom and the Constitution

Al Gore has more credibility as an independent agitator, like Jimmy Carter...

Nobody who wants to be president now has any credibility much less autonomy.

The only real fix is a new constitutional convention. Amen.

*           *           *
Re Boil it at least ten minutes

And you never really know for sure. For example, I opened a carton of 1/2 and 1/2 yesterday, dated for five days hence and it was already beginning to curdle. Must have been left on a loading dock in the sun a few minutes too long...

There are no absolutes, hardly...

Siskiyousis 

  Yeah, we've had so many things go bad before their alleged eat-me date, we thermometered the fridge, just to be sure it wasn't too warm. It wasn't. Which makes me suspect that the eat-me dates are bogus.

I am semi-proud to say that we've slowly switched from mostly processed foods to mostly real food and homemade food. I expect it'll pay off in a longer life, if the political situation allows longer life.

Helen & Harry 

We have been going to the local farm market stand just outside of town for their tomatoes (including heritage), corn, zucchini, apples, pears and melons most of the summer. They also had pumpkins of every sort plus some I had never seen. And Indian corn with its husks swept up into a shock headpiece and tied. I got six for five bucks -- all deep reds. Then we went to the market in town.

Both Hal and I are hoping that we will not outlive our money, or scare-by date. With the exception of Bill Moyers and lots of PBS, we have found we have to limit our TV exposure drastically. What we get online is plenty hairy enough.

We get classical music on the same satellite system and listen to more of that every day and night. A bromide for both of us. Last night we listened to the Organ Symphony by Saint-Saens and discovered that it was a big favorite of both of us. The organ used was the big pipe organ in the Chicago Symphony hall and you could hear the size of the room in the reverberations. It was marvelous! Tonight the Pictures at an Exhibition just finished and Moyers came on. Real music is probably good brain food, too.

Siskiyousis  

  I love the sounds of a pipe organ, long as it's not playing hymns. Very soothing...

I'm thinking lately that it's time to step back, listen to good music and just generally try to enjoy whatever life is left. There's less and less chance that anything of America will survive, less and less hope that sanity will prevail. And as the battle seems futile, I'm unsure what's gained by continuing to fight.

Maybe I'll be re-invigorated tomorrow morning. That's what usually happens. But there comes a time when the gathering clouds are so ominous, so dark, it's just idiotic to pretend there's not going to be one hell of a storm. Time to seek shelter.

Helen & Harry  unknownnews@inbox.com



Rule of law is the only real alternative to rule of despots

by Tony K.

Oct. 13, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
Re Arguing for futility
I can't disagree, because there's nothing there. "The best way to stop it is to stop it" sounds circular to me. Please be more specific.
Simply: To stop taking from the laborer and rendering to the military-industrial complex. To stop taxing wages, which are already "taxed" by the employer to build his profits, and instead to tax the profits. To stop delivering the gross national product to the warmongers on a silver platter. To stop destroying the middle class by stopping the debasement of the currency. Paul has argued for a gold standard simply because that is the constitutional basis for lawful money, but he would be equally amenable to fiat currency, were it made lawful, and operated transparently under the control of Congress rather than by private bankers under cover of darkness.

There are good Democrats (although few and often assassinated, witness JFK and Wellstone). There are good Republicans (although few and typically marginalized). Honest people trying to perform public service. I don't know whether Paul has taken any position on the supreme court ruling that supported the coup d'etat, but he's not obligated to fight every battle, and since he has no influence on that under the authority of his office, it would be pure demagoguery to raise the issue, in my opinion.

Paul addresses the subjects relevant to his responsibilities as a representative, and relevant to the office he now seeks, and his primary platform is a return to the rule of law, and an end to unlawful corruption. He sees that as the best available solution to the current state of affairs, and on that point I heartily agree with him. It is enough to win my emphatic support, even if I disagree with him about the majority of other issues.

Please don't paint Paul as a "Libertarian" of the Ayn Rand stripe, because he is not. He is very much an advocate of limited government. This is an example of emphasizing the rule of law: The Constitution is a charter for limited government. That this is disregarded is corruption. It can be changed, to adapt to practical exigencies of the modern era, but to abandon it and submit to the tyranny of those who can best control the corporate media is not a viable option for our children.

Rule of law is the only real alternative to rule of despots. That's why I endorse Ron Paul. Every other candidate with the possible exception of Kucinich is willing to disregard the fundamental laws of this nation in order to further the interests of their private constituency. Kucinich cannot attract cross-over voters, and hence cannot win. Paul has a chance to make it to a Clinton vs. Paul fight, and he would win it, because she's a warmonger. I see Paul as the only real hope for this nation, which is on it's last legs. The world might be better without the US at this point, but I doubt that the replacement will be better, frankly. Instead, a repair is in order. That is simultaneously a radical, reactionary, and moderate move.

Tony K. 

  My heart's not in an argument about Ron Paul, especially since you're right on much of the above. And my heart's not in much of anything these days.

I'm enjoying seeing Paul do well in the debates and pick up points in the polls. He makes the liars and hypocrites squirm a little, and that's enjoyable. I hope he doesn't do too well, because of course, if he does he'll be assassinated.

Helen & Harry  unknownnews@inbox.com



An inconvenient question

by Herb Ruhs, MD

Oct. 13, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
The most dangerous enemy of all is war itself.

*           *           *
Power derived from profit is the definition of evil.

*           *           *
Moderation in all things including moderation.

*           *           *
The oil culture is dying. Is our species willing to die with it?

*           *           *
When the parliaments of one "democratic" country after another votes against the wishes of their populations to go to war (Germany today -- 70% of Germans oppose having their troops in Afghanistan) what does the word "democracy" mean?

Herb Ruhs, MD 

  Just a guess, but I'd say it means democracy is a sham in more and more places, where money rules.

Helen & Harry  unknownnews@inbox.com



Nooses

by Zebra

Oct. 13, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
another noose (link from drudge):

Noose left dangling by NYC Post Office

I think Mike Rivero is correct, that the recent "surge" in noose "deposits" is likely a GOP/neo-con dirty trick. The intent is what could be called "reactionary" -- it provokes outrage among the Dem opponents and black voters, which creates a reactionary force among GOP voters in the South (and huge swathes of the Mid-West).

The rise to power of the GOP over the last couple of decades has been built on the white voters in the South who are poor to middlin', who vote against their own class interest because of the racist subtext of the GOP message, the "Macaca" voters.

The GOP is desperate now. The Xtians hitched their wagons to Bush, a man who has tortured and committed war crimes, and a man who has presided over gross corruption and incompetence while claiming that "God" is telling him what to do. So that's a loser.

Who is left for the GOP except the CEO's, racists, misogynists -- and the Zionists?

Answer: There is no one left unless the GOP can scare old people and poor white Southerners into voting GOP out of fear of terrorists and fear of black people. The party is pretty much totally fucked now, so their operative hang nooses to promote racial strife. Who is next to on the GOP Hate List, Mexicans? Slutty women? Scientists? We'll find out soon enough!

Zebra 

P.S. There is a key demographic, which noose-hanging is intended to protect for the GOP: Post-Confederate Gravy Eaters!

(Thx to Neal Stephenson for that!)

  I'm not familiar with Mike Rivero's theory on the nooses. I just figured it's ordinary racism, fueled by news from Jena.

Ever since the Democrats started caring about civil rights in the 1960s, the Republicans have expertly tweaked racism (and more recently, homophobia) to garner votes. That's the Republican way. But I don't think it takes Republican strategists to manufacture a deluge of nooses across the country. Republican voters can tie those knots without any instructions from headquarters.

Helen & Harry 

Well, I get corroboration from Rivero's theory (which I may have mangled) from Bruce Sterling's concept of an "underground hit server", which he wrote about in "Distraction". A "hit server" is a webserver that monitors the news wires looking for negative references to specific allies, and when the slurs reach a certain level they trigger the hit server to start sending out emails to known "wackos" to go assassinate the enemies of the ally. Now, most of the "wackos" won't respond or take action, and few will have any realistic chance of success, but the Law of Large Numbers kicks in and eventually a few "wackos" journey off into the real world to take action. Then, eventually the hit server notes that the "enemy" is deceased and so it stops sending out the emails.

This sort of deal could apply to political operatives having their own operatives, who have contact with people in desperate circumstances willing to work as mercenaries for a few bucks a job -- never even knowing who they're working for. They might actually be people who think putting up a noose is a smart move, or they might be mercenaries. But the goal is political whether they know it or not.

Zebra  

  Interesting indeed. Made me mutter and chuckle under my breath. I think that's pretty much the system the Republican Hate Machine has constructed, and it's up and running and fully functional and it was designed to do exactly what you're suggesting. But they've been at this for so long, the part where the system sends out wacko notes to wack jobs is superfluous. The wack jobs have been fully programmed, they're on auto-pilot -- they need no orders from a central authority for meanness, savagery, violence, etc.

Helen & Harry  unknownnews@inbox.com



Seize it, and keep it

by JR Mooneyham

Oct. 13, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
Rebuild or retreat: US debates evacuation of Gulf coastline
 
Excerpt: The United States is working on a multi-billion-dollar plan to depopulate vast swaths of coastline along the Gulf of Mexico in a move which it is hoped would help re-establish a natural barrier against the catastrophic flooding caused by the likes of Hurricane Katrina. In the first sign that the federal government is favoring a retreat from the coast rather than rebuilding...

Note that Europeans do exactly the opposite: they seize land from the sea via technology -- and keep it.

JR Mooneyham  (jrmooneyham.com)    unknownnews@inbox.com


 
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Dialogue for Friday, Oct. 12, 2007 

On not dying from salmonella
by Noodleknocker

It's a mad, mad, mad, Milgram world
by Chris M.

Boil it at least ten minutes
by Siskiyousis

  Something funky with the stats
by Next Table Over

Still a glimmer of hope
by Wig

Arguing for futility
by Tony K.

 

On not dying from salmonella

by Noodleknocker

Oct. 12, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
You'll want to look at this article about ConAgra chicken and turkey pot pies. It has a table showing illnesses reported -- BY STATE:

Salmonella cases linked to pot pies

 ... no deaths reports...so far...

*           *           *
My view on this is simple, or simple minded :-)

Cook your own damn food, don't just buy frozen, packaged stuff and throw it in the microwave to heat it up. Granted, making pot pies is a bit much, but here is a similar meal in terms of protein, carbs and veggies...

Adjust quantities to preference, making either a stew or a soup-like meal:

1/2 -> 1 lb of chicken, turkey or cat (I prefer turkey pastrami which is already cooked, but kittens are also quite tasty)
1 can refried beans
1 big onion
1 cup old fashioned oats
1 -> 2 cups water
1 cup frozen mixed vegetables (optional, haha.)

Cook meat and onions, then add beans, water and oats, and simmer for a while (5 minutes), then add veggies and simmer for 5 minutes (or a bit more, depending.) Optionally add salt, hot sauce garlic or whatever else you have on hand.

NOTE: This will make a huge quantity of food, so if there are leftovers, which there will be, refrigerate *immediately* -- and before re-eating you should do some *serious* re-heating to kill any *new* bacteria (don't worry about killing the vitamins, that is the reason we take daily multi-vitamins!)

Noodleknocker 

  The recipe looks good, and I like the underlying philosophy. And I hope you're kidding about the kittens.

And yikes, my own state of Wisconsin is way out in front in salmonella reports...

Helen & Harry 

J. S. Magruder replies, Siskiyousis replies
unknownnews@inbox.com



It's a mad, mad, mad, Milgram world

by Chris M.

Oct. 12, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
I just got through listening to a very enlightening interview with Dr. Bob Altemeyer, who has written a book, an ebook actually, on his research into Authoritarianism. You can down load it here:   PDF.

I read the first 4 chapters so far and have skimmed the rest. Will try to read the rest through completely when I can. I highly recommend it.

The one thing he does not seem to mention is that the vast majority of the people he describes are "WASPS" (While Anglo Saxon Protestant). This of course explains also why they are so anti immigration. The latest statistics show that "Whites" will very shortly be in the minority in this country and this scares the piss of these people. It is a threat to their power and any chance of retaining it in the future.

Chris M. 

  Of course, for old farts like Bill O'Reilly and Lou Dobbs and the other leading racists, "the future" is short. They've got maybe ten years of celebrity life left, and after that if they're lucky maybe ten years in retirement, and then they'll be dead. So it's not about a threat to their power, personally.

When I glimpse through the fog into such racist minds, what I think they're thinking is, they just can't stand the thought that some time, even after they're dead, non-white people might have some control over the levers of power. It's not racism about now, it's racism about forever.

Probably that's not profound or anything, but it just hit me like a light bulb going on.

Helen & Harry 

Chris M. replies
unknownnews@inbox.com



Boil it at least ten minutes

by Siskiyousis

Oct. 12, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
Re On not dying from salmonella

I saw that article in the Chron today. Personally I do not have to worry about that stuff because almost all of it contains some item or many that I cannot ingest. I will not purchase anything with a ConAgra or ADM logo because it will always contain some engineered or hybrid food. Guaranteed allergy reaction. I cannot even eat fresh corn from the farm stand anymore.

But I take a full dose of acidophilus daily. And a double handful of vitamins, minerals and supplements with yogurt.

My philosophy is not to eat unless actually hungry. And not to go near any food that smells iffy, like all seafood these days...

In the case of soup that is being reheated, you must boil it at least ten minutes to kill residual bacteria. Especially if there is any tomato or legume product in it.

Of course, if it is cooked meat that has been in the reefer over five days, toss it. Make that four days. In some cases, three... My personal approach is if it even arouses suspicion, pitch it.

You need to have a thermometer in both your fridge and freezer. Truly. Aaarrgggh.

Just click on these URLs for more instructions from the experts -

Food storage: Refrigerator and freezer
Includes a 4 page pdf version to print that gives you a list grid like the one I keep on my reefer.

Food storage: Pantry (PDF)
This one prints out a 3 page pdf version for pantry items.

Food storage guidelines for consumers
Virginia Tech is also very good on the food list and I use their School of Dendrology website all the time.

Here's more, but I think the above sites cover the topic sufficiently if you are not paranoid -

Fridge and freezer safety after the power goes out

Proper meat storage is important as it represents a large part of your food budget

Siskiyousis 

  Wow and a half ... I especially appreciate the listed eat-by dates from the experts, which, in numerous cases, is a few days quicker than the rule of thumb I've operated by all my life. Yikes.

Helen & Harry 

Jos replies, Siskiyousis replies
unknownnews@inbox.com



Something funky with the stats

by Next Table Over

Oct. 12, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
Abortion rates same whether legal or not
 
Excerpt: Women are just as likely to get an abortion in countries where it is outlawed as they are in countries where it is legal, according to research published Friday.

In a study examining abortion trends from 1995 to 2003, experts also found that abortion rates are virtually equal in rich and poor countries, and that half of all abortions worldwide are unsafe.

There has to be something funky with the stats. Like how would they have accurate numbers for the illegal abortions... or for even the legal ones?

Next Table Over  (overheardstarbuck.blogspot.com) 

  Agreed. Sounds funky indeed.

Helen & Harry  unknownnews@inbox.com



Still a glimmer of hope

by Wig

Oct. 12, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
I don't know if this item will come up but i send it because it brought a smile to my glum face.

Wig 

  The news brought a smile to my face and a tear to my eye. Once in a while, yeah, once in a while there's a glimmer of hope.

Helen & Harry  unknownnews@inbox.com



Arguing for futility

by Tony K.

Oct. 12, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
Re About Ron Paul

Ron Paul argues that the current mass-taking of the product of labor from the laborer by the government and its delivery to the military industrial complex, in combination with calculated debasement of the currency is destroying the middle classes, and with it the upward mobility of the lower classes. He argues that the best way to stop this is to stop it. Do you disagree?
 
I can't disagree, because there's nothing there. "The best way to stop it is to stop it" sounds circular to me. Please be more specific. I can take a guess at what you or Rep Paul are saying, and I might even guess right ... but why not say it plainly?   --H&HH

In response to your comment on Republican affiliation, Democrats are war criminals too. Does that make Dennis Kucinich either a criminal or one who willingly associates with criminals? Aren't you really arguing for futility, when you suggest that no one should join one of the major political parties? The game is rigged so that no one else can play seriously.

Tony K. 

  I take your meaning here, and we've reached (and gone beyond) the point where arguing for futility is a reasonable argument. Kathy and Leon frequently argue for futility, and I don't argue with them because, well, because I'm not so certain they're wrong.

But my comments yesterday weren't about war crimes, and I don't think every Republican or every member of Congress is a war criminal. I said 'crimes', but I should've been more specific:

I was thinking of the unConstitutionally stolen 2000 election, and all the obvious Constitution-stomping Bush and Cheney have done since then. Ron Paul talks a lot about the Constitution, but did he have something to say about the Constitution in November and December of 2000, as the election was being stolen? And has he had plain criticisms of all the Bush administration's Constitution-shredding since then?

I ask these questions seriously, not as a gotcha, and I don't know the answers. I haven't heard endless criticisms of Bush and Cheney from Paul, but maybe his criticisms just haven't made the newspapers? In several minutes of searching I couldn't find any quotes from Congressman Paul complaining about the stolen election of 2000 (or 2004), which leads me to think that his principles ride in the back seat when he's not running for President.

But really, all this is beside the point. Ron Paul is big on principles and a lot of his principles sound good, but a lot of his libertarian principles are dead wrong. So it doesn't much matter to me whether he's sincere about his principles, or whether he's just playing politics.

Helen & Harry 

Tony K. replies
unknownnews@inbox.com


 
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Dialogue for Thursday, Oct. 11, 2007 

About Ron Paul
by profnasty

Chatty Kathy is back
by Kathy Fisher

Moral of Oral
by Z

  Secrecy, the warm fuzzy
of the incompetent

by Herb Ruhs, MD

Tail between our legs
by Chris M.

Sweetheart deal on self-opinion
by Scott D.

 

About Ron Paul

by profnasty

Oct. 11, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
Hello Helen and Harry, I just read most of your 'Hate Mail' section and enjoyed it very much. A bit like reading karate fights. I think you are undefeated there. And congratulations on your great website.

My question is; I don't know if you are on the Ron Paul bandwagon. Most intelligent Americans (sic) seem to agree with his positions on Iraq and the Fed. (Your site certainly appeals to this group.) Do you think he would be a great president? I feel a bit concerned his nuts and bolts constitutionalism may leave the poor in dire straits. How would his plans effect the rich/poor divide in this country? I don't even know if you are greatly concerned with Paul's policies. But there is no one I would more trust for intelligent answers.

Thanks for all the work you do for America. Perhaps all is not yet lost.

profnasty 

  Ron Paul is, I think, one of perhaps a dozen Congressmen who shouldn't stand accused of treason, and I like the guy. As you notice, he's dead wrong on some important issues, but his candidacy's surprising surge is definitely good news. Shows that some Americans prefer leaders with integrity, and his serious reverence for the Constitution might startle a few Republicans out of their moral coma.

But he's a Republican, and that means he's either a criminal or he willingly associates with known criminals. So my respect for the man is limited indeed. Here's an oldie that explains our opinions on Ron Paul in more detail.

Helen & Harry 

Tony K. replies
unknownnews@inbox.com



Chatty Kathy is back

by Kathy Fisher

Oct. 11, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
Guess it's time for that saying from Godfather II, it goes something like, "Every time I think I'm out they pull me right back in again." Ain't it the truth. Yeah you guys know I can't stay away too long!

I saw something that struck me as absurd while in the food store this evening (but then this is just the way I am, I can't keep my mouth shut!) This guy, so perfect with his ever so toned yuppie body with a stupid Blue Tooth in his right ear, and he's taking oh so long to pick out his organic milk and veggies. I mumbled too myself a bit too loud "That's soo wrong" and he heard me!

"What did you say?"

"It's just wrong"

"What Is?" he said.

"You're so picky about your health aren't you?"

He answered "Yes, I really try to live a clean life. So what did you mean when you said 'That's soo wrong'?"

I couldn't believe he said that and I (Miss Nervy) was going to start talking to him. This poor fool didn't know what he walked into.

"Well, the Blue Tooth doesn't go with your organic milk and your clean way of life," and I proceeded to tell him why. He showed me that he was one of the most ill-informed humans I have ever come across. He has them all beat. And I'm telling you, this took even me by surprise because he looked to be in his 30s and dressed in work-out clothes. I saw him in the parking lot gin a fairly new Honda Civic.

I don't know why but this one really took me by surprise. I thought I had them down but I was fooled. He was unaware, a babe lost in the woods.

Now my one neighbor who barely got out of grade school is piss poor, in his early 30s, rides a bike around town and to his job, walks his 8 year old daughter to school and reads everything you and I read on the internet thanks to buying a refurbished PC five years ago for a mere 150 bucks because he was so sick of the lousy lies on the TV news and local news papers (I did have a small hand in this). BTW He want's Jim Kirwan to run for President and me to run for Governor of New Jersey. LOL! This guy wasn't fooled about 9/11 for one minute!

He grows his own vegetable garden and wouldn't dare talk on a cell phone for even a second.

I dunno, for some reason I always expect hip-looking educated people like the chap in the food store to know what's going on and not want to accept the BS or be fooled. Boy am I wrong!

You know the funny thing about this is that this jerk could have told me to go to hell and walked away at any time, but he stood there for fifteen minutes or longer and listened and kept asking me questions about websites where he could see evidence to back my WAY OUT CLAIMS!

I went on to shopping and when I turned to get on line twenty minutes later he was getting on line right next to me. He saw me and hightailed it in the other direction. As he looked back to see if I was still there I said loud enough for him to hear, "Don't worry, I'm done talking!"

Kathy Fisher  (klfisher@webtv.net)   unknownnews@inbox.com



Killer Christmas

by SirJ

Oct. 11, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
On Backwater's Santa wish list?   VIDEO

SirJ 

  Wish list? I assume this is the ordinary way Blackwater employees commute to work.

Helen & Harry  unknownnews@inbox.com



Moral of Oral

by Z

Oct. 11, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
Well, again, let us not pre-judge the case. Rather, let us strive to present just carefully selected information to the viewers and let them do the judging.The Oral Roberts University scandal from students' perspectives

NOTE: The author, Adam Willard, shows up via Google as an actual alumni of ORU. This tends to corroborate his testimony, especially because his testimony is ... well ... I hope he has a crack squad of Blackwater mercenaries guarding him, and scanning under his car with a mirror every morning!

I kind of liked this line from his article:
 
Excerpt: "Personally, I have experienced several aspects of the allegations first hand. I attended ORU for four years and graduated in the spring of 2005. During my entire time as a student, there was a campus-wide feeling of fear to confront the Roberts about any concerns or disagreements about the ethical or doctrinal nature of their actions or teachings. It was widely understood that when a student or faculty member openly voiced any disagreements with any aspect of the Richards' management or teaching directly to any high-ranking administrator, the person who disagreed was expelled or fired. For that reason, disagreements were either quietly murmured in very private settings among people one could closely trust or they were completely silenced altogether."

AND remember, let he who hath not ... oh fuckit, go ahead ...

BUT personally, I suspect a Democratic hitman operative trying to discredit the GOP in this! I mean, c'mon! It makes no sense unless he had a gun pointed at his head -- *two* wetsuits?

Z  unknownnews@inbox.com



Secrecy, the warm fuzzy of the incompetent

by Herb Ruhs, MD

Oct. 11, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
Re Supreme Court backs CIA kidnapping and torture

The so called "Supreme Court" (neither a court or supreme anymore) has declared the obvious: government incompetence is a state secret.

*           *           *
Corruption has an enormous constituency, truth none.

*           *           *
Restore the Constitution. Break governmental secrecy.

*           *           *
You can't have both Democracy and secret detention camps.

Herb Ruhs, MD 

  And I don't think we do have both.

Helen & Harry  unknownnews@inbox.com



Tail between our legs

by Chris M.

Oct. 11, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
The sun sets early on the American Century
 
Excerpt: The ‘American Century’ only began 60 years ago. But it seems already to be over, with the disaster of Iraq forcing some of the United States’ ruling elites to realize that its hegemony has been severely weakened. But nobody seems to know what to do next, or even how to behave.

How about slinking back home with our tail between our legs for starters. Truth is that this country does NOT know how to behave when it's not being arrogant, self-centered, egotistical and bullying.]

Chris M.  unknownnews@inbox.com



Sweetheart deal on self-opinion

by Scott D.

Oct. 11, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
Re Point of order

Yes, sweetheart, I've replied to puff up my "self-opinion". Good job mistressing.

Scott D. 

  You caught me on a cranky day... and I have lots of cranky days lately. It is possible that you were cranked without reasonable cause.

Helen & Harry  unknownnews@inbox.com


 
PREVIOUS DAY's DIALOGUE       LATEST DIALOGUE       NEXT DAY's DIALOGUE

Dialogue for Wednesday, Oct. 10, 2007 

And now it's their turn
by Aaron

Does Bush-Cheney
purposely help al Qaeda?

by JR Mooneyham

Health care and horse dung
by Chris M.

  Iraq for sale
by Kathy Fisher

Thou shalt not fly
by Wig

Mr and Mrs Non-White
by Millard Wong

 

And now it's their turn

by Aaron

Oct. 10, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
Re Urgent memo from the Reality Liberation Front

Oh I'm expecting exactly what you say... I've been a close witness to the very same thing happening with the marginal mortgage lending companies, essentially all of which are gone now... but the lacunae of bad debt have expanded up and out one level to the financiers of it all; and now it's their turn. Exact same thing.

This simple comic illustrates it succinctly. I'm placing my bets accordingly.

Aaron  unknownnews@inbox.com



Does Bush-Cheney purposely help al Qaeda?

by JR Mooneyham

Oct. 10, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
White House incompetence severs undercover monitoring of al Qaeda
 
Excerpt: The founder of the company, the SITE Intelligence Group, says this premature disclosure tipped al-Qaeda to a security breach and destroyed a years-long surveillance operation that the company has used to intercept and pass along secret messages, videos and advance warnings of suicide bombings from the terrorist group's communications network.

"Techniques that took years to develop are now ineffective and worthless," said Rita Katz, the firm's 44-year-old founder, who has garnered wide attention by publicizing statements and videos from extremist chat rooms and Web sites, while attracting controversy over the secrecy of SITE's methodology. Her firm provides intelligence about terrorist groups to a wide range of paying clients, including private firms and military and intelligence agencies from the United States and several other countries.

This sort of thing has happened over and over and over again with the Bush Administration, since 9/11/01. So frequently that some writers have questioned if Bush-Cheney isn't purposely helping al Qaeda elude surveillance efforts, via such worldwide alerts regarding successful spying efforts against them. I've got other examples buried in the thousands of news reports I've archived to my local disk. But there's not much point in me searching them out to list here: after all, a new event like this occurs every few months. All you have to do is wait.

JR Mooneyham  (jrmooneyham.com)     unknownnews@inbox.com



Health care and horse dung

by Chris M.

Oct. 10, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
I generally do not pay much, if any attention, to what the right has to say on any subject as they are generally full of horse dung and spew it out like a pair of fighting Hippos. However a piece by the Rude Pundit concerning the antics of one of the slimier members of that crowd triggered a response to the current debate on Single Payer Health care.

Now I'm am no fan of Insurance companies and would like to see those who rum them tortured along with bankers and lawyers until they become totally psychotic, if they are not already. But the whole idea that health care might wind up being determined by some Michelle Malkin type upper level manager who got the job politically gives me the willies.

They are so convinced that everyone is going to rip off the system, that is except for their "bosom buddies" of course, that getting anything done becomes a major nightmare. National health is a great idea, if we can keep the wackos, wing nuts and control freaks out of it.

Best solution is to do away with "for profit" health care and institute a government funded system where the health providers make the decisions without government interference. Something that ain't too likely.

Chris M. 

  The answer is Medicare. Medicare ain't perfect by any means, but it works. Open it up to all Americans, and the health care crisis fades to ordinary-scale bureaucratic problems.

Insurance companies and private health care providers that can compete with Medicare-for-everyone will survive, and the ones that can't survive can kiss my ass as they go under.

Helen & Harry  unknownnews@inbox.com



Iraq for sale

by Kathy Fisher

Oct. 10, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
40 cents of every dollar we are spending for this stinking war goes to the private contractors This is a DVD I pass around to my neighbors. They either get it or they don't!

Kathy Fisher  (klfisher@webtv.net  unknownnews@inbox.com



Thou shalt not fly

by Wig

Oct. 10, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
Planes escorted out of no-fly area

How dare they fly near our beloved "Decider".

Wig  unknownnews@inbox.com



Mr and Mrs Non-White

by Millard Wong

Oct. 10, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
Hey, much to my surprise it looks like they have a few non-white people at The Heritage Foundation. Of course, the two non-whites in that "conservative think tank" are Asian, married to each other, and Mrs Non-White lists one of her areas of expertise as "abstinence". Which must be nice for Mr Non-White.

Millard Wong  unknownnews@inbox.com


 
PREVIOUS DAY's DIALOGUE       LATEST DIALOGUE       NEXT DAY's DIALOGUE

Dialogue for Tuesday, Oct. 9, 2007 

To the point
by Herb Ruhs, MD

Want to believe
by Madeline Zane

Debunking vs. looking for solutions
by Marie K.

  Underground methods
by Sherri B.

Overwhelmed
by Kathy Fisher

Just plain crazy and paranoid
by Chris M.

Both? All?
by Konrad Schwoerke

 

To the point

by Herb Ruhs, MD

Oct. 9, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
Support our troops as they arrest the crooks and restore Constitutional rule.

*           *           *
Those who throw away hope don't make it.

Herb Ruhs, MD  unknownnews@inbox.com



Want to believe

by Madeline Zane

Oct. 9, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
Senate approves spending another $150-million on Middle-East slaughters
 
Excerpt: Thwarted in efforts to bring troops home from Iraq, Senate Democrats helped pass a defense policy bill authorizing another $150 billion for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Monday's 92-3 vote comes as the House planned to approve separate legislation Tuesday that requires President Bush to give Congress a plan for eventual troop withdrawals.

Comment: "Thwarted in efforts to bring troops home from Iraq"? Yeah, right. A few Democrats have said what needs to be said, but as a whole Democrats in the Senate have made no effort at all to stop the killing, and instead have given the death machine a blank check.   Helen & Harry     PERMANENT LINK 

The one silver lining in this is that the Senate only approved the money, and didn’t appropriate it yet. I’m not 100% sure I understand the difference, but apparently they have to do both before the money is actually used to kill more Iraqis. And the House, at least, is saying this week that they’re not going to appropriate the money without a withdrawal timetable. Which I really REALLY would like to believe, however unlikely it seems in light of their history on this issue …

*           *           *
Obama stops wearing American flag pin
 
Excerpt: Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama, D-Ill., said he will no longer wear an American flag lapel pin because it has become a substitute for "true patriotism" since the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

Comment: Six years after 9/11 made America into a nation of whimpering cowards, a blandly robotic candidate in a suit stops pinning a damn flag to his lapel, and it's newsworthy, startling, and it probably passes for guts in some people's minds.   Helen & Harry     PERMANENT LINK 

Yes, it shouldn’t have taken courage, but it sort of did. Especially since his position could not be explained in a two-second sound bite.

Madeline Zane  unknownnews@inbox.com



Debunking vs. looking for solutions

by Marie K.

Oct. 9, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
Having given up on debunking (at least for a while-I personally can’t handle it anymore without becoming depressed), I came across this article that offers what I consider some sound solutions because they focus on major issues rather than the “divide and conquer” or “let’s keep them distracted or unaware” issues. While some of the issues not mentioned do mean a lot to people and also to me (such as opting for a universal health care system), I still believe that given the title of this article, “Perilous Times,” we need to stay focused on the major issues. Michael Rivero goes even farther and writes that ending the war or wars is the ONLY issue and that all others are “manufactured” distractions.

The article discusses 3 issues -- the problem of the current financial bubble and the related now deflated housing bubble, the problem of the US policy of desiring to conquer the Middle East, and the problem of the rapid pace of global warming and no preparations being made to deal with the effects. The author sees as them as linked synergistically with the potential to disrupt the peace and security of the entire world.

The first solution the author presents that would end the creation of bubbles is “establishing a more democratic and equitable world financial paradigm” that would “make credit-creation less the private property of financiers and more in the nature of a public utility.” The way it is now we have monetary systems that create money “almost exclusively through debt” which has the effect of “funneling much of the world’s wealth from the hands of those who earn their living in the producing economy of goods and services into the bank accounts and investment funds of those who lend money at interest.” Thus, the more money lent the more the money lenders get back in interest. Clearly, beneath the surface the money lenders will be backing all efforts that increase their lending whether that includes wars or creating bubbles of various sorts which means that nothing involving peace and monetary stability will emerge in the world. Yes, this is another anti-US Federal Reserve system argument, but it is also a much better one since it includes a call to all countries with basically the same sort of system. As this article rightly indicates, this IS a world-wide problem requiring a world-wide solution.

The other two problems of US militarism and lack of infrastructure to deal with the effects of global warming, require “calling off our military adventures and replacing them with new efforts and multilateral solutions” and “rebuilding our public and private infrastructure through low-cost government-provided credit.” The author also supports “a negotiated two-state solution for Israel and Palestine” and “a basic income guarantee, not tied to employment” provided to all citizens.

The author concludes saying that “in just three months, in Iowa and New Hampshire, something profound and unprecedented must start to happen.” Clearly, he is indicating that there are a few candidates who would support the solutions he is offering. The problem is seeing that they get the support they need. As far as I can tell, the supporters of Ron Paul really ARE keeping on top of things and informing web sites such as Michael Rivero’s whatreallyhappened.com of what needs doing. Also, he now seems to be the only anti-war candidate really making headway. Please correct me if I am wrong. He also supports ending the Federal Reserve system and seeing that the US government is run as the constitution intended. Given these perilous times, I personally AM willing to overlook differences of opinion that I might not have in the past in order to get the US back on track.

Marie K. 

  Ron Paul presents a delightful dilemma for Republicans, since he's pretty much the last Big Name in his party to have any principles. I'd love to see him get the Republican nominations, but if he actually had a chance at that the Republicans in charge would have him assassinated.

Helen & Harry  unknownnews@inbox.com



Underground methods

by Sherri B.

Oct. 9, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
Re Act on your anger

You know, I contacted Indymedia and asked about silent, underground methods of protesting. I'll let you know what they say. Maybe people will be more responsive if they can do things "underground" without so much fear of detainment. The media needs to be brought down. After that it's a free for all.

Sherri B. 

  If America makes it through this nightmare, it's a chapter that needs to be closed with some very public, world-televised trials. Of men like Bush and Cheney, certainly, but also of men like Rupert Murdoch and Roger Ailes.

If those trials aren't held, and of course they won't be held, then Bush and Cheney, Murdoch and Ailes, and all their co-conspirators have won.

Helen & Harry  unknownnews@inbox.com



Overwhelmed

by Kathy Fisher

Oct. 9, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
Been wrestling with myself all last week. Have I turned a new page or have I just finished another chapter?

This is the first time in over six years that I have gone totally silent and been uninterested in reading anything on this catastrophe that captivated me from the very first minutes I set my eyes on it. I don't mean to insult anyone or for that matter perplex any of you either. I'm trying to figure out why I've lost interest and lack any sort of concentration to absorb any of the new news and any of the 'redundant' news that any minute now THIS IS ABOUT HAPPEN and our lives will never be the same.

Sometimes I find myself a little bit too eager for it to all to just HAPPEN ALREADY! It has become obvious to me that I have become Overwhelmed.

Now I'm sure this will pass very soon and I'll go back to my usual self and continue to write more intriguing little essays, but for now I'm going to stay in a state of confusion. Several cans of paint that I've been avoiding all spring and summer are waiting for me to finally open them.

The lady who found herself homeless last week is sharing a nice little apt with a lady who needed some company thanks to a woman I found here in my neighborhood they call Salvation Annie. That sure felt good to help someone!

Hey don't worry, I will snap out of it soon. I just have to catch up. I'm still reading and appreciating every one's articles and emails.

Kathy Fisher  (klfisher@webtv.net) 

  I know the feeling. My theory is that there's only so much insanity any of us can be cognizant of without feeling our own sanity start to ebb away, so we all need some down time once in a while. So take some time off. The world will still be insane when you come back.

Helen & Harry 

Just between us I can't take it any more. I found myself weeping to no end quite a few times in the last month. Same horror show stories and my dead fellow country men and women outside our circle of internet friends just don't fucking get it!!

Maybe I just need a break but let me tell you, Helen, it hasn't stopped. Leon and I just shake our heads when we go out There were Christmas trees for sale in the food store I went to today, and bigger and more ridiculous Halloween decorations on the morons' lawns already! Jeezus!

Calgon take me away!

Oh, I forgot -- my bathtub is too short to lay down in. Shit!

Kathy Fisher  (klfisher@webtv.net)   unknownnews@inbox.com



Just plain crazy and paranoid

by Chris M.

Oct. 9, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
 
Excerpt: It is alleged he had a copy of the "Anarchists' Cookbook", containing instructions on how to make home-made explosives.

His next court hearing has been set for 25 October. The teenager faces two charges under the Terrorism Act 2000.

Information that is available just about anywhere. Like a university chemistry book. This is just plain crazy and paranoid. Oh and I once had a copy of Abby Hoffman's "Steal this book" but somebody stole it. (No lie).

*           *           *
Greenspan says U.S. economic growth slowing
 
Excerpt: "I think the best way of putting it is that the American economy's rate of growth is definitely slowing down," Greenspan said, adding that the odds of a recession are less than 50/50.

In other words, it's heading towards the dumper and we're sure to have a depression.
 
Excerpt: Greenspan added that he thought there was not much that lawmakers and the Federal Reserve should be doing to avoid a downturn.

Translation : We're scr3wed.
 
Excerpt: "I doubt very much if there is anything that can or should be done. Because remember, we have a very complex, self-calibrating, self-adjusting economy," he said.

Once the housing market totally dumps, every thing else will follow.

Chris M.  unknownnews@inbox.com



Both? All?

by Konrad Schwoerke

Oct. 9, 2007
 PERMANENT LINK 
Re Stupidity? Complacency? Lack of imagination?

I believe we are both? all? doing good work here, I just wish it didn't feel like we're only preaching to the choir. Keep it up anyway and thanks for everything,

Konrad Schwoerke  unknownnews@inbox.com


 
PREVIOUS DAY's DIALOGUE       LATEST DIALOGUE       NEXT DAY's DIALOGUE

Dialogue for Monday, Oct. 8, 2007 

The missing word
by Madeline Zane

Act on your anger
by Sherri B.