Welcome to UNKNOWN NEWS
"News that's not known, or not known enough."
Helen & Harry Highwater's cranky weblog of news and opinion.
Home  |  About us  |  Contact us  |  Daily headlines  |  Dialogue  |  Guidelines  |  Index  |  Mystery links  |  Stickers & stuff  |
Dialogue    (Letters to the editor)
PREVIOUS WEEK's DIALOGUE       LATEST DIALOGUE       NEXT WEEK's DIALOGUE
 
  Current week's news           Daily headlines           Latest commentary           Latest dialogue         This page is archived as  unknownnews.org/080426-sd.html
 
   
 
PREVIOUS WEEK'S DIALOGUE SUNDAY
APR 20
MONDAY
APR 21
TUESDAY
APR 22
WEDNESDAY
APR 23
THURSDAY
APR 24
FRIDAY
APR 25
SATURDAY
APR 26
NEXT
WEEK'S DIALOGUE
Dialogue for Saturday, Apr. 26, 2008 

AT&T's unending greed by Sherri B.       Infectious by JR Mooneyham
Slip sliding away by Max       Optimism in the form of a rebate by Kathy Fisher
Porker by Wig       Response to Chris D. by M.M.       Sunk by Chris M.
Depleted uranium by The Canadian       Six delayed emails by WW65+ for Obama
Follow-up on lag time by Enduring in the East       Douchebag by Rachel J.
Think corporate by Angry Annie       Four delayed emails by Ron G.

 

AT&T's unending greed

by Sherri B.

Apr. 26, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
Customers who pay cash pay surcharge at AT&T

Can you ask your economist buddies why this would be done in such a large way? is it simple greed? Is it because the dollar is less in value than credit (only so to speak) or is it because AT&T is global and well, yes, greed is the answer. But really if there's an economist on board with you guys can you check it out? Thanks...

Sherri B. 

  We have no economist on staff, as we have no staff, but we might hear from someone out there who knows more than we do. But meanwhile I can cut through the double-talk and tell you exactly why there's a AT&T charges a fee to accept cash payments. It's because almost without exception the only people who'll pay a bill in cash are poor people, and poor people can't do much to raise a ruckus, can't afford to stand on principle and have their phones disconnected.

To put it more succinctly, AT&T does this because AT&T is Evil Incorporated.

Helen & Harry 

Sherri B. replies, The Canadian replies, SirJ replies
unknownnews@inbox.com



Optimism in the form of a rebate

by Kathy Fisher

Apr. 26, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
130,000,000 rebate checks are going out this May 9th. That will be pouring into of all sorts of businesses. But wait! Someone do the math for me, how much money is that? Yes, yes, I know it won't help, but still many people will not have the luxury to keep it in their pockets and save it for a rainy day, because for most people it's been pouring for a long time.

So who will reap the benefits of all this Band-Aid counterfeit cash coming into the debtors lives? As gasoline continues climbing to economic distress levels I figure much of this green will go into the gas tanks of millions. Lets face it, the domino effect from gas prices is killing us! At 3.50 a gallon (and two cars per household) 600 bucks will basically get you, depending on where you live, about 200 gallons of gas! People drive more in summer on average 25 miles a day at the least!

Think about it -- that's gas to go to work and the store and away to a vacation spot. Gas for a bus ticket, gas for a plane ticket, gas for the trucks that bring the food and other STUFF we buy to the stores we'll be shopping at. Hey, but it will all sound nice when everyone spends money till they actually see where it went and where it didn't and believe me, come September we will all be back where we were plus it will be worse.

Having this money to spend will cause many to hit their credit cards up again to compensate their big ideas. What's next, another rebate in December to help pay for Santa Claus? For a working family of four a $2,400 check will be two mortgage payments (maybe three). This will cause them to get crazy and spend money on something they really don't need, or people really behind in their bills may catch up for a month, but what happens next month? Those who are caught up and not in debt will have the most fun, but there's not too many of them around. I wonder how many of them will use it to purchase a generator or a few solar cells or a water butt. Will any take their SUVs back and put the $2,000 on a four cylinder car?

I will bet you that Wal-Mart and Sears will be making a killing this summer, but not as good as the gas stations and those corporate crooks who control the flow of oil! Optimism in the form of a rebate -- what a joke.

They take our money spend it on wars and useless sh*t, give themselves two cost of living raises per year, and then they gloat about giving SOME of 'OUR' money back to us after THEY made us go BROKE! This is so wrong!

Kathy Fisher  (klfisher@webtv.net) 

Pavel C. replies
unknownnews@inbox.com



Slip sliding away

by Max

Apr. 26, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
Re Unreasonable search & seizure

There are always, daily, who knows how many illegal searches by cops where they don't find anything, and who knows how many more illegal cops break-and-entries that aren't about "searching" at all, just about planting evidence. Add to that probably ten thousand illegal searches by cops for every illegal search that actually makes the newspapers. Then add another ten or twenty thousand illegal searches for every case where the illegality is actually noticed and brought to court and the evidence gets tossed.

And you want to take a few more steps down that slippery slope?

Max  unknownnews@inbox.com



Infectious

by JR Mooneyham

Apr. 26, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
Viruses may play a role in lung cancer development

Another bit in the mounting evidence that cancer has an infectious element -- and so can best be addressed with universal healthcare.

JR Mooneyham  (www.jrmooneyham.com/)  unknownnews@inbox.com



Porker

by Wig

Apr. 26, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
CIA Chief Hayden finally quits Air Force
 
Excerpt: Air Force Gen. Michael Hayden, director of the Central Intelligence Agency, says he will retire from active duty but intends to stay on the agency, Reuters reported.

This smells like the practice of retiring from one government position and taking another so that on final retirement the individual qualifies for pensions from both positions. In Hayden's case there may be multiple pensions coming. He's been the top CIA official since May 2006. Talk about pork!

Wig  unknownnews@inbox.com



Response to Chris D.

by M.M.

Apr. 26, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
Re *Heavily* assisted suicide

You and I are saying the same thing. Why the O'Reilly style shout down? I absolutely agree that we should be able to elect a president based on merit and faith in their ability. I just don't think I will live long enough to see it. And if you don't see gender bias in this election, you aren't looking. If you would care to read my comments you would see that I am not trying to endorse Hillary. I am trying to confront ignorance. I am pointing out the elephant in the room, the one that you don't see.
 
"We will have to repent in this generation not merely for the hateful words and actions of the bad people but for the appalling silence of the good people."
Martin Luther King Jr.

M.M. 

  Sorry to be boringly diplomatic, but I can see both perspectives. Your complaints are valid, but Chris wonders why you're complaining about the sexism against Hillary Clinton here, at a website where it (hopefully) hasn't happened much. And I assume you're complaining about it here because there isn't any real opportunity to complain about it there -- on ABC, NBC, CBS, MSNBC, CNN, Fox, at the Associated Press, or in the New York Times or Washington Post.

Helen & Harry 

You've nailed it! :)

M.M.  unknownnews@inbox.com



Six delayed emails

by WW65+ for Obama

Apr. 26, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
Re Obama's "get out the vote" emails delayed

As one of the few (or, given the results, perhaps the only) "white women over the age of 65" in Montgomery County PA who voted for Barack Obama, I come lately to the alternative news sites, let alone, the blogs, that are now available on the internet, so forgive me if I don't yet know the new protocols. I perhaps sent my message to the wrong address so I will repeat it here, because I consider the delaying of emails from the Obama campaign for the days up until Tuesday's primary more than just a prank. They diverted information the would have been useful to Obama supporters, volunteers and undecided voters.

I'm an Obama supporter in the Philly burbs. I wondered why I received six emails from the Obama campaign after the election. They were all sent before the primary (some as early as April 17th) and received after. So the "dirty tricks?" started early. And these were emails that gave information about Obama's Friday in Philly schedule and time slots for volunteers before and on election day, information that was available on the website, but for those of us who don't check the site every day, notices that could have been very useful.

WW65+ for Obama 

  You have reached us loud and clear, and please don't worry about protocols. We don't do protocols.

Thanks for letting us know about this. We heard from someone else in Pennsylvania with a similar response, so that's three people in Pennsylvania who had weird email problems regarding "get out the vote" messages from Obama's campaign. And three is a little worrisome, when you figure that our website is pretty small and we don't probably don't have more than a few hundred people reading our page in Pennsylvania ...

Helen & Harry 

Enduring in the East replies, N.K. replies
unknownnews@inbox.com



Depleted uranium

by The Canadian

Apr. 26, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
Re Growing with rocks

It is the only metal that can penetrate tank hulls, aka armor piercing or kinetic energy penetrators. The old Soviets plated their tanks, and this stuff had the means to punch through. Its been around since the 1940's.

This stuff is not just found on modern battlefields. What most people don't realize is that this stuff can be found on just about every military live munitions firing range in Canada, the US and Europe. Just don't dig the ground up ...

The Canadian 

  I'll claim no expertise and I certainly can't doubt that "depleted" uranium makes an effective bullet, but from everything I've read the advantage of uranium is that it causes your enemy's grandchildren to have godawful birth defects. You're saying DU is a pragmatic choice -- it's just an unavoidable side effect that it makes gonads glow in the dark? The people Americans are shooting at in Iraq ... are they wearing body armor and driving plated tanks that require super-piercing (and radioactive) ammo? Ordinary bullets wouldn't be enough to kill them?

Helen & Harry 

The Canadian replies
unknownnews@inbox.com



Follow-up on lag time

by Enduring in the East

Apr. 26, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
Re Obama's "get out the vote" emails delayed

Me again. I just went back to Properties and into Details and it appears that some of the holdup is as at http://www.bluestatedigital.com/. This company states on their homepage:
 
We work with Democratic candidates, progressive institutions, and corporations. We are partisan in the candidates we work with -- we work with Democrats and progressive organizations. We look for opportunities and causes we believe in. We have a solid track record in helping Democratic candidates and organizations win.

Gee, if they are partisan in their dealings, are they perhaps more partisan with one candidate than another? While there is still a small lag time between them and my mail server getting the mail to me, the largest hold is with them.

I would be curious to know if the same issue happens with all their clients in all states or just specific ones. Maybe they have too large a client base to effectively provide their services.

Thanks for putting my query out there. It would not be funny to find that something like this impacts the future of our country. Maybe we depend too much on the 'Net sometimes?

Off to work at the first of my two part-time jobs and you have a great day in America,

Enduring in the East  unknownnews@inbox.com



Sunk

by Chris M.

Apr. 26, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
Re The Democrats' problem

I think the one thing I did not mention, probably because I was so frustrated, was the campaign style of the two leading Democrats. Obama rarely goes out among the people and Clinton only a little more. And neither one really talks to them, only AT them.

If you want to win votes you need to win the people over and you can't do that by just standing on a podium somewhere. You have to connect. What they all need to do is to study the way people like FDR, Truman, JFK, LBJ and Carter campaigned. They all got out among the people. You have to convince them you are one of them.

Reagan was very skilled at this as was Bush II. People do not vote with their heads, they never have. They have to "feel" good about you as well. And if they think you're a jerk, you're sunk.

***           ***           ***
Criminals target energy, financial markets, Mukasey says
 
Excerpt: Attorney General Michael Mukasey warned Wednesday that organized criminal networks have penetrated portions of the international energy market and tried to control energy resources.

In a speech at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington, he said similar efforts have targeted the international financial system by injecting billions of illicit funds to try to corrupt financial service providers.

So the professional crooks are now getting into the act, as opposed to the amateurish ones that have managed to screw things up. And these folks mean business, so to speak.

Chris M. 

  Among the professional criminals, don't forget Attorney General Michael Mukasey.

Helen & Harry 

I found this particular entry on TalkingPoints very interesting.
 
Excerpt: My name is Kevin Flynn, I am the legislative/political director for the International Union of Bricklayers and Allied Craftworkers. Our union is an affiliate of the BCTD. I was at the legislative conference when McCain lost his cool and began this tirade. Your readers are correct, his assertion was that no American would be willing to do this work for $50.00 an hour. There are those who will argue that offering such a wage to American workers would not be adequate incentive, but clearly to an audience of construction workers this is not the case. Our president was behind him on stage when he made this asinine comment in response to the public outcry he received because of his very vocal support of comprehensive immigration reform, Our president(and myself since I worked in the field as well) was struck dumb because our members(not unlike those of the other trades represented in the crowd) work 8-12 hours each day in the heat throughout the country bending over and laying 80 lb concrete blocks, heavy stone & marble, brick, and working in hellish conditions worse than the Arizona summer.

Your original point was correct, John McCain is clueless when it comes to the economy or the experiences of ordinary people who work for a living. His only working experiences were as a pilot in the Navy and as a member of the House of Representatives and the Senate. It should be very apparent from this ludicrous offer he made to people doing similar work and in a fair number of states for less. If you have any questions, please feel free to email or call me.


We had a Governor, a Democrat, that got elected every time he ran because he got out with the people. We also had either a Senator or Representative that would go out and do blue collar work with his constituents. He also got elected every time. People liked them. It was as much what they did or were willing to do as what they said. And as they say, "Actions speak louder than words."

Now can you imagine Clinton or Obama trying to lay bricks or be a carpenter's helper or any other blue collar job?

Neither can I. But if you want to get the "Reagan Democrats" that is what you need to do. At least show that you are willing to walk in their shoes for a bit.

Chris M. 

  I suppose there are people who fall for such antics. Probably millions. I'm not the target audience, though, 'cuz without exception I get pissed and flip the telly the bird every time I see a politician pretending to be a coal miner or short-order cook or whatever. It's every bit as phony as any lie spoken aloud.

Helen & Harry 

Chris M. replies
unknownnews@inbox.com



Four delayed emails

by Ron G.

Apr. 26, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
Re Obama's "get out the vote" emails delayed

Well, I live in Pittsburgh and I received four "don't forget to vote" emails from the Obama campaign (actually two emails and two duplicates) the day after the election. Two were sent on Monday, and two were sent in the early morning hours on Tuesday, and I didn't get anything on election day, all of them came on Wednesday.

But I don't think any of this necessarily means there's something nefarious about it. It seems just as likely that the Obama site or server was understructured and couldn't handle the huge volume of outgoing emails on Tuesday.

Ron G. 

Enduring in the East replies, N.K. replies
unknownnews@inbox.com



Douchebag

by Rachel J.

Apr. 26, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
Re Growing with rocks

Every time I see General Petraeus on TV, I marvel in amazement at how perfectly straight a douchebag will stand when it's wrapped in a well-starched military uniform.

Rachel J.  unknownnews@inbox.com



Think corporate

by Angry Annie

Apr. 26, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
Re Mindboggling

America sells the technology to Iraqi, and selling means money and profits. Your problem, Wig, is that you're thinking like a human being instead of like a corporation. Sure, the technology might be sold or rejiggered to kill American troops, but from the corporate perspective that's irrelevant since it has nothing to do with American corporations making sales and money and profits.

Angry Annie  unknownnews@inbox.com


 
PREVIOUS WEEK'S DIALOGUE SUNDAY
APR 20
MONDAY
APR 21
TUESDAY
APR 22
WEDNESDAY
APR 23
THURSDAY
APR 24
FRIDAY
APR 25
SATURDAY
APR 26
NEXT
WEEK'S DIALOGUE
Dialogue for Friday, Apr. 25, 2008 

Unreasonable search & seizure by Chris D.       Growing with rocks by The Canadian
Mindboggling by Wig       No truth by SirJ
Obama's "get out the vote" emails delayed by Enduring in the East
The Democrats' problem by Chris M.       On behalf of the world by Ann in the UK
Of marshmallow and milquetoast by Max       One of hundreds by B.L.

 

Unreasonable search & seizure

by Chris D.

Apr. 25, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
Re: Border agents can search laptops without cause, Appeals Court rules

Now this is an issue I sometimes ponder and my feelings on this at this point in time will likely disappoint you. Often I wonder in such a case where search and seizure may not be reasonable, but may save lives, if we should not discount it. There have been cases of murderers walking free over such violations and murders averted because of them.

For it to become a regular practice is unconscionable, but I've often considered the pros and cons of allowing the extraordinary powers that The Other Butcher of Baghdad wants to use but coming with a limiting factor and a price: Permitting evidence gained from unreasonable searches provided all law enforcement or government agents involved unanimously agree to go on public record as accepting responsibility for the decision, sacrificing their jobs on the spot, being willingly blacklisted from their profession, and possibly jailed for a set period in order to perform a search.

It makes the search no less unreasonable but the ones who perform and authorize it agree ahead of time that they will pay a heavy price for it whether or not they find the evidence they are looking for and the power is limited by their joint ability to sacrifice themselves for the public.

I still believe that imprisonment without cause, torture, and other shit like that are still unacceptable for any reason though.

Chris D. 

  It's not a wildly unreasonable proposal, not as insane as half the things GW Bush has done without even half-comprehending the consequences. But you'll never talk me into it, Chris. The rules are there for a reason. You want to add some exceptions to the rules, but the exceptions will immediately become the new rules, and we'll be that much closer to no rules at all.

Helen & Harry 

Max replies
unknownnews@inbox.com



Growing with rocks

by The Canadian

Apr. 25, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
Bush rewards Petraeus with Central Command, positioning him to oversee war on Iran

I've always marveled at the name "Petraeus" (meaning: "growing with rocks") at this point in history. Sounds so Roman, don't you think? How serendipitous!

So the stories I read a couple of days ago about Petraeus' promotion are now mainstream. General Petraeus has been promoted to the office of Regional Commander. Since we know what he thinks about Iran, and we know that the US is concurrently moving large firepower into the region, I personally think it is becoming clearer that President Bush is leaning to war with Iran.

Hamas has left the peace talks brokered by Egypt. Syrian and Iranian Foreign Ministers are meeting at a hurried pace. As I also mentioned some time ago, the US is seeking to isolate Syria by implicating (via CIA) it was quite active in nuclear weapons development with help from North Korea.

Casus bellum.

Your thoughts?

The Canadian 

  My thoughts? Nothing really worth typing. The casus belli will be manufactured and phony, but the media will ask no questions until years after the war is underway (if there's still a media by then). "Growing with rocks" sounds like the sort of big-balled posturing that fits Petraeus's public persona. He's just Neidermeyer from Animal House, except he didn't get fragged in Vietnam ...

Helen & Harry 

Belli Bellum singular plural

VENI VIDI VICI!       ;-)

By the way, the topic of depleted uranium rounds seems to come up a lot within the UnknownBlogosphere. To my recollection, no-one has ever explained why DU is used. I know why. Are you interested in knowing?

The Canadian 

  The answer is something beyond the obvious, that American leaders have genocidal tendencies?

Helen & Harry 

The Canadian replies, Rachel J. replies
unknownnews@inbox.com



Mindboggling

by Wig

Apr. 25, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
US sells secret anti-IED tech to Iraq
 
Excerpt: The U.S. has taken the unprecedented -- and some would say questionable -- step of selling some of its most sophisticated counter-IED technology to the Iraqi government, equipping specialized police, military and interior ministry troops with electronic systems designed to detonate roadside bombs and jam triggering signals. ...

But some might see handing over America's most sophisticated and top secret counter-IED technology to Iraqi ministries, whose loyalty to Baghdad is less than certain, as extremely risky. Electronic jammers like the Symphony have saved American lives in a war where the roadside bomb is the number-one killer, and the possibility that an Iraqi official could hand over the technology to an insurgent or unfriendly government is all too real.

The stupidity of the Bush nuthouse is mindbogging.

***           ***           ***
Saudi Arabia won't open embassy in Baghdad, due to security concerns
 
Excerpt: “The reason is not political, it is entirely security, and when security is there the embassies will follow,” Prince Saud told a news conference in Riyadh.

“We hope the Iraqi government will be able to provide the protection for missions in Iraq. The important thing for Arabs is to take part in finding solutions to ensure national reconciliation, unity and independence,” he said.

Huh? Haven't they heard? "The Surge" has succeeded. So say the Bushies.

Wig 

Angry Annie replies



No truth

by SirJ

Apr. 25, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
12,000 veterans per year attempt suicide
 
Excerpt: The Veterans Administration has lied about the number of veterans who've attempted suicide, a senator charged Wednesday, citing internal e-mails that put the number at 12,000 a year when the department was publicly saying it was fewer than 800."The suicide rate is a red-alarm bell to all of us," said Sen. Patty Murray, D-Wash.

The VA hears no truth, sees no truth, speaks no truth. Keep up the good work, guys!

***           ***           ***
White House says North Korea assisted Syria on nukes
 
Excerpt: The White House says North Korea assisted Syria's secret nuclear program and that the reactor bombed by Israel last September was not intended for peaceful purposes.

After seven months of silence, the administration said that after the reactor was damaged beyond repair, Syria tried to bury evidence of its existence. The US says Syria "must come clean before the world" about its nuclear activities.

In 1962, "When Acheson offered to show De Gaulle the photographs of the missile sites, the French leader brushed them aside and said, 'A great country such as yours does not act without evidence'."

How I long for the good old days when there were real threats, real evidence and we had real leaders! Now days, what the White House says is always a lie, and acts without evidence all the time.

SirJ 

  The media will report whatever fairy tales the Bush administration tells, asking no serious questions, and people who still believe in newspapers and newscasts will believe the lies they're told. Again.

Helen & Harry  unknownnews@inbox.com



Obama's "get out the vote" emails delayed

by Enduring in the East

Apr. 25, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
Who is Comcast endorsing? Is some other ISP interfering? Is there a mole in the Obama camp? Have aliens messed with our satellite transmissions?  ... Click for more ... 

Enduring in the East  unknownnews@inbox.com



The Democrats' problem

by Chris M.

Apr. 25, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
Or why they consistently lose elections...

One need only look at history to see which Democrats got elected to see who they need to appeal to. FDR, Truman, JFK, LBJ, Carter. It was the "Blue Collar" working men and women. The tradesmen and service workers these days. The lawn maintenance people and cable people and phone people. These are the ones they need to appeal to.

But instead they are trying to woo mostly the upper class, college educated people who are in the minority in this country. And good number of them are conservative. Just study the polling results and you will see that this is true. Worse yet, the Democrats keep treating these people as lowlifes. One need only read the "Progressive" blogs like KOS, America Blog, RAW Story, Alternet. The working stiffs are constantly referred to as stupid or worse.

By treating the middle class blue collar people in a snotty, snobby manor. By appearing aloof and "better than", they will constantly lose election after election.

This is the area that the Democratic party needs to bring together because this the one are where there is the most rancor, distrust and resentment on both sides.

With more and more high tech and other jobs requiring a college degree being shipped over seas and this country becoming more service and trade based, the more the Democrats need to appeal to these people and not the "snot nosed" college kids who may or may not vote.

***           ***           ***
For Obama, a struggle to win over key blocs
 
Excerpt: It is also hard to discount that Mr. Obama has arrived at this place in his candidacy after winning big victories in very white states. The crowds at his rallies are as white as any at a Clinton rally, and many analysts in both parties believe that racial attitudes in this country are changing at a breakneck pace, particularly among younger voters, making it risky to impose models from even four years ago on this unusual election.

Yes. But look at the demographics. These are young, upper middle class whites and college students. As one article has observed, McGovernist in makeup. And you remember what happened to HIS campaign.

***           ***           ***
The worst of all worlds for the Dems
 
Excerpt: The racial difference is obvious as well. But what really leaps out is age. Obama lost every cohort over 40; Clinton lost every cohort under 40. Race also affects the generations in turn: 67 percent of whites over 60 voted for Clinton -- a massive 24 point advantage. Among the younger generation, there is much less racial polarization: under 30, whites split evenly.

And this is why the Democrats will loose even with a Republican party that appears in shambles. They (the Democrats) insist on embracing the upper middle class white pseudo-progressive wing at the same time alienating the blue collar working class vote. Maybe they deserve it.

***           ***           ***
Obama suffers from working-class blues
 
Excerpt: "Let's understand -- the white working class has gone to the Republican nominee for many elections," Axelrod told National Public Radio. "This is not new. Democratic candidates don't rely solely on those votes."

And this is why the Democrats keep loosing and loosing election after election. That and snotty ass-holes like you.
 
Conservative blue-collar "Reagan Democrats" left the party in the 1980s for Republican President Ronald Reagan and many never came back. In 2000, Democrat Al Gore lost working-class whites by 17 points, and in 2004 John Kerry lost them by 23 points.

Not it goes back to McGovern when the Democrats abandoned them (the white working class) for some snotty rich kids.

Chris M. 

  I haven't seen more than the rarest descriptions of working stiffs as stupid or low-lives, and those aren't the right words. But generally speaking, people are ignorant of what's really going on in the world. And that's not really their fault. Most of us are working our butts off just trying to keep the fridge stocked and the rent paid, and don't have the time or patience or know-how to delve into the minutia of politics. You've seen what the surface-level news coverage looks like -- how can working stiffs not be ignorant, when the "current events" in a newscast or newspaper are so shallow and meaningless?

Helen & Harry 

Has anybody noticed how the Stock Market has been going up over 100pts then down over 100pts then up again and down again?? Looks to me like somebody is try to make the economy "look good" by pushing the "Market" up.

Problem with this is that most people are not interested in the Stock Market, they are interested in the Super Market and from that point of view things do not look rosy at all.

Chris M. 

Chris M. replies
unknownnews@inbox.com



On behalf of the world

by Ann in the UK

Apr. 25, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
Re
"I don't care if it's a woman in the White House. I don't care if it's a black woman in the White House. I don't care if it's a black hermaphrodite in the White House. I don't care if it's a naturalized Martian-American in the White House. I only care that they can do the job with some consideration not only for American citizens but the rest of the world".
Taking somewhat of a liberty and speaking on behalf of the rest of the world: Can someone please put Chris D in the White House? Thanks. 'preciate it.

Ann in the UK  unknownnews@inbox.com



Of marshmallow and milquetoast

by Max

Apr. 25, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
Carter says Secretary Rice is "not telling truth"
 
Excerpt: Rice said in Kuwait on Tuesday: "We counseled President Carter against going to the region and particularly against having contact with Hamas."

"President Carter has the greatest respect for ... Rice and believes her to be a truthful person. However, perhaps inadvertently, she is continuing to make a statement that is not true," a statement issued by the Carter center in Atlanta said on Wednesday.

"No one in the State Department or any other department of the US government ever asked him (Carter) to refrain from his recent visit to the Middle East or even suggested that he not meet with Syrian President (Bashar) Assad or leaders of Hamas," it said.

It's been so many years since he was President, I sometimes forget how much I abhorred Carter while he was in office, and why -- the man's 100% made of marshmallow and milquetoast.

Max  unknownnews@inbox.com



One of hundreds

by B.L.

Apr. 25, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
Re Freedom is for brave people, not for farm animals

Americans only had their "empire" for 50 or so years. If you think about it from a historian's viewpoint, America was never really a Rome, or even a Britain. America is like one of hundreds of mini-empires before it that rise and fall in a generation.

B.L.  unknownnews@inbox.com


 
PREVIOUS WEEK'S DIALOGUE SUNDAY
APR 20
MONDAY
APR 21
TUESDAY
APR 22
WEDNESDAY
APR 23
THURSDAY
APR 24
FRIDAY
APR 25
SATURDAY
APR 26
NEXT
WEEK'S DIALOGUE
Dialogue for Thursday, Apr. 23, 2008 

Panic, panic, panic by Sherri B.       Incinerating millions by Chris M.
Anybody here seen my old friend Jonathan? by Wig
*Heavily* assisted suicide (Part 2) by Chris D.       Section 502 by Marcus R.
Happy birthday, Hitler by JR Mooneyham       Absurd editorial by Chavingo del Vigros
Mushroom clouds by The Canadian       Take it back by Judy C.
Friends, Americans working together by Galactic Rabbit

 

Panic, panic, panic

by Sherri B.

Apr. 24, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
Has anyone noticed (of course you have) that every arena of "news" and "information" has the disturbing habit of "pushing"? If one article is written and the response isn't huge, overwhelming, and filled with support it is thrust in our face over and over and over (each time using a different spin-like right now). Maybe until we give in and cooperate? Maybe until we "accept" that they MUST be right? It seems we cannot take time to stop and think of whatever options our minds want to explore. If we even come close to thinking of a solution and banding together then it's "PANIC PANIC PANIC" from the news.

Ladies and gentlemen, just so you aren't confused... the poo is already hitting the fan... the fallout has only just begun... we WILL be poisoned by the hateful dramas unfolding... and we will survive. Though survival may not be as fabulous and rewarding as the "Be all you can be" folks want you to believe. So the next time someone starts screaming PANIC in your face, hit mute, walk away, or cut off the tube and read a book. Or stock up on supplies. Or do whatever it is you do to try to prepare for the full implosion of a number of countries.

Don't let them push. Stand firm. Then when the time is right... push back.

Sherri B.  unknownnews@inbox.com



Incinerating millions

by Chris M.

Apr. 24, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
Hillary Clinton's monstrous threat
 
Excerpt: What makes this particular threat so disgusting is that Clinton knows better. Unlike McCain, who appears to relish the thought of death and mayhem, whether in Iraq or Iran, and who presents his history of bombing dikes and hospitals in North Vietnam as heroic exploits, she opposed that war in Indochina once upon a time. I assume that among other things she opposed the Indochina War because she thought it was wrong for the US to be slaughtering millions of innocent peasants.

What Lindorff is forgetting is that to 99 percent of the people in this country bomb is just a word and a mushroom cloud is something you see on TV or in the movies. There is no connection with it because they have never been through it. They have no clue what it is like to be bombed and shelled let alone witness the effects of a nuclear blast.

Only Japan knows this, and most of those people have died. So it would not be surprising for the people of this country to be very OK with incinerating millions of people. It is an abstract concept to them. A video game at best.

***           ***           ***
Clinton is alive and kicking -- and threatening to tear the party apart?
 
Excerpt: During the Monica Lewinsky scandal -- when many pundits and Clinton foes predicted Bill Clinton's demise -- the Clintons learned a valuable lesson: sometimes you just have to put one foot in front of the other and keep moving ahead, paying no heed to those who say you have no choice but to quit. They had their party--most of it -- behind them during those days. And now Hillary Clinton, with significant voter support, is plodding ahead, stuck with a strategy that at this point leaves her only the nuclear option of nullifying Obama's primary and caucus victories.

Face the facts. The democratic party is hopelessly split and no matter what the outcome, neither will win. Pole after pole has shown that the too many supporters of one candidate simply will not vote for the other and visa versa. I do not see this changing.

If McCain vs. Obama, 28% of Clinton backers go for McCain
 
Excerpt: A sizable proportion of Democrats would vote for John McCain next November if he is matched against the candidate they do not support for the Democratic nomination. This is particularly true for Hillary Clinton supporters, more than a quarter of whom currently say they would vote for McCain if Barack Obama is the Democratic nominee.

Except for the Republicans, it's a lose lose situation.

Wilting over waffles
 
Excerpt: The Democrats are eager to move on to an Obama-McCain race. But they can’t because no one seems to be able to show Hillary the door. Despite all his incandescent gifts, Obama has missed several opportunities to smash the ball over the net and end the game. Again and again, he has seemed stuck at deuce. He complains about the politics of scoring points, but to win, you’ve got to score points.

He knew he tanked in the Philadelphia debate, but he was so irritated by the moderators -- and by having to stand next to Hillary again -- that he couldn’t summon a single merry dart.

I read in a number of places by a number of so-called pundits that Clinton wants McCain to win so she can run in 2012. I do not think so. I believe her strategy is to keep Obama from winning on the first ballot and then, before the subsequent ones, convince enough delegates and party regulars that Obama would go down in flames in the face of Republican onslaughts and that she alone could win. Thereby getting the nomination on the second or third ballot. Maybe even persuading the DNC to seat Florida and Michigan at some point.

***           ***           ***
Re Long drive on an empty tank
This is the party that gave us boring and wooden Al Gore and principle-free John Kerry as Presidential candidates
Well, you can't include Al Gore as he was Veep and Veeps are nearly always chosen. As for Kerry, that was his second or third try. I do not know who they would choose, I will admit.

In the good old, bad old days of the "party bosses" this would not have happened. One, Obama would never have been chosen as he had not enough time in Congress and two background checks would have been done on everyone, their brothers, sisters, parents, grandparents, great grandparents aunts, uncles and anyone who may have accidentally bumped to them in the subway.

Obama is better than HRC but not by much. One thing I can say for the Clintons is, they do know how to fight mean and dirty. And I'm afraid that is what it will take to beat the Republicans. Unless something really unexpected happens.

Chris M. 

  Always expect the unexpected, especially when you least expect it.

Helen & Harry  unknownnews@inbox.com



Anybody here seen my old friend Jonathan?

by Wig

Apr. 24, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
Another case of treason and delivering US state secrets
to Israel, is again immediately dismissed as insignificant
 
Excerpt: Israel is playing down the impact of an espionage affair following the arrest in New York of a U.S. Army veteran charged with passing defense secrets to the Jewish state in the 1970s and 1980s.

"This affair is a momentary embarrassment, but it will not harm the privileged relations between Israel and the United States," a government official told AFP, asking not to be named. ...

"What apparently is irritating the Americans is that we had told them [Jonathan] Pollard was our only agent, and this new affair could raise questions," said former Mossad boss Danny Yatom, now a member of parliament.

With friends like this who needs enemies?

***           ***           ***
Weary of CIA infiltration, Ecuador may close US base
 
Excerpt: Chafing at ties between U.S. intelligence agencies and Ecuadorian military officials, President Rafael Correa is purging the armed forces of top commanders and pressing ahead with plans to cast more than 100 U.S. military personnel out from an air base in this coastal city.

Correa, who dismissed his defense minister, army chief of intelligence and commanders of the army, air force and joint chiefs this month, said that Ecuador's intelligence systems were "totally infiltrated and subjugated to the CIA." He accused senior military officials of sharing intelligence with Colombia, the top ally in Latin America of President George W. Bush's administration.

Perhaps we're just as bad as the Israelis' when it comes to friendships.

Wig  unknownnews@inbox.com



*Heavily* assisted suicide (Part 2)

by Chris D.

Apr. 24, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
Re *Heavily* assisted suicide

I've done a little independent digging on Riad Hamad's case and I've found out some interesting things. First off the bat, there are inconsistencies in news reports. More than a few are threadbare, only saying that Riad Hamad was found dead and police were calling it a suicide, but I found a few with details.

kvue.com/news/vess/stories/041708kvuebody2-bkm.745e13f5.html

The most interesting difference in this story is that it claims that Hamad was found by police and makes no mention of the duct tape on his legs. I made the assumption that when the first story said the intersection of Comal Street and Nash Hernandez Sr. Road, (which is considerably inland,) they actually meant near it and weren't just using it as a vague reference. I might have jumped the gun claiming the Lazarus act and would like to withdraw my snide comment to that affect.

palestinechronicle.com/view_article_details.php?id=13719

In this article it discusses personal relationships with the deceased including some of his plans for the future and a witness testimony from the people who found the body. According to the witness statement the tape wasn't just over Hamad's eyes but covering his entire face.

msnbc.msn.com/id/24188653/

This one also shares the same witness statement, and goes into much greater detail about the location.

There are also some unsubstantiated claims that his body showed signs of being beaten, but the links all turned up dead ends. Hamad was also noted as disliking Israel intensely and some accused him of aiding terrorists... (With books and clothing?)

Upon further investigation, the entire Austin Police Department appears to have more than just a few highly suspicious activities under it's belt for this year alone, with allegations of hiring officers with previous assault convictions and continuing to employ them after numerous disciplinary actions, misusing seized funds, and other assorted scandals they've been under public scrutiny for some time.

Makes you wonder, huh?

Chris D. 

  Good work, Chris. Goes without saying that the investigation should be conducted by out-of-town police, preferably from a different state.

Helen & Harry  unknownnews@inbox.com



Section 502

by Marcus R.

Apr. 24, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
Re Me and Alex Jones

Sec 502 of the PATRIOT Act defines terrorist as anyone who breaks a state or federal law hence jaywalking makes you a terrorist.
Here's Section 502 of the PATRIOT Act, in its entirety:
 
SEC. 502. SECRETARY OF STATE'S AUTHORITY TO PAY REWARDS.

Section 36 of the State Department Basic Authorities Act of 1956 (Public Law 885, August 1, 1956; 22 U.S.C. 2708) is amended--

(1) in subsection (b)--

(A) in paragraph (4), by striking 'or' at the end;

(B) in paragraph (5), by striking the period at the end and inserting ', including by dismantling an organization in whole or significant part; or'; and

(C) by adding at the end the following:

'(6) the identification or location of an individual who holds a key leadership position in a terrorist organization.';

(2) in subsection (d), by striking paragraphs (2) and (3) and redesignating paragraph (4) as paragraph (2); and

(3) in subsection (e)(1), by inserting ', except as personally authorized by the Secretary of State if he determines that offer or payment of an award of a larger amount is necessary to combat terrorism or defend the Nation against terrorist acts.' after '$5,000,000'.

Not a word in there about jaywalking. I guess the Galactic Rabbit got this information from Alex Jones too?

Marcus R. 

  I've heard that crack many times, about terrorism being defined so loosely that jaywalking could qualify. I've never seen the law that backs up such a statement (I don't spend my leisure time reading laws) but it certainly seems in keeping with the Ashcroft-Gonzales-Mukasey mindset.

Helen & Harry  unknownnews@inbox.com



Happy birthday, Hitler

by JR Mooneyham

Apr. 24, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
Republican candidate for Congress spoke at Hitler birthday celebration

The guy compares it to speaking to a black radio audience in Georgia.

JR Mooneyham  (www.jrmooneyham.com/)  unknownnews@inbox.com



Absurd editorial

by Chavingo del Vigros

Apr. 24, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
Editorial: The low road to victory
 
Excerpt: The Pennsylvania campaign, which produced yet another inconclusive result on Tuesday, was even meaner, more vacuous, more desperate, and more filled with pandering than the mean, vacuous, desperate, pander-filled contests that preceded it.

Voters are getting tired of it; it is demeaning the political process; and it does not work. It is past time for Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton to acknowledge that the negativity, for which she is mostly responsible, does nothing but harm to her, her opponent, her party and the 2008 election.

I'm with the New York Times on most of this editorial, but it's absurd to claim that Clinton's tactics don't work (after all, she won) or that her tactics in some way harm the Republican Party.

Chavingo del Vigros  unknownnews@inbox.com



Mushroom clouds

by The Canadian

Apr. 24, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
Re No-one is talking peace anymore, not really
Can you imagine what Bush and Cheney would have done in, say, a Cuban missile crisis?
We would not be here today.

My father-in-law was an officer on board a Canadian cruiser blockading Cuba. Did you know that the US bombers were only 5 minutes (literally) away from target when JFK called it off?

The Canadian 

  I'm not nearly the admirer of John F Kennedy that many liberals are, but for that decision I'd say thanks and shake his hand.

Helen & Harry  unknownnews@inbox.com



Friends, Americans working together

by Galactic Rabbit

Apr. 24, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
Re Me and Alex Jones

I deeply apologize to be so defensive. Certainly you understand with our country being under attack internally, it tends to make one frustrated.

As a Buddhist I am always taught to try to see the other side of things. And as usual I am programmed to be a self serving human. So I deeply apologize. In this time friends are needed and America needs to unite.

I understand that you and alex probably tend to overlap articles. But from a person who has taken logic classes in college. to say you never use alex's news is an incorrect statement. and that is probably what my anal retentive personality was trying to get across.

I commend you folks for what you do and I again say your first response was the best and most nicest email i have ever received.

I thought jeesh finally some great people who mean well and aren't sleeping. As for Bilderberg they are being exposed and yeah so what. But i bet you don't know what 9/11 stands for? Check into the IAA or International actuaries association. These boys definitely stood to benefit from a 9/11 event. Did you know the virginia tech shooting was also a 9/11 the date was 4/16/2007 =11/9 also did you know the words Katrina Astrodome and New Orleans all total 922? These are questions I look at a lot. I have attached 911,922,933 list just check it out for yee haws in simple text.

So Helen you are a nicely lady and you did not deserve my wrath. My deep love comes out aggressive being an aries. I'm the type a person that has to paint two coats on something, just to make sure, never leaving well enough alone.

Just to give you a brief of my day, I found out my police dept has 20 military vehicles in a warehouse here saying dept of homeland security on them. I went and confronted my mayor's office, my mayor called me back but unfortunately i did not get the call. I asked a police officer at the PD and he said he could neither confirm nor deny it. Care2 banned me and blocked my IP so now i can't post the news now. On top of it I had to rag at a friend for ten bucks he has owed me for two weeks. So a wonderful day so to say.

But in any case I wish to be friends, Americans working together. I am thinking about taking it to the streets now, handing out news articles and talking to people.

I am just frustrated because I'm highly intelligent and have nowhere to go with it. So many ideas no help, you know.

So I am going to watch the last www.cornergas.com (simply love it) pet my bunny rabbits, yes GR, and I meant no harm in calling other then to find out if you were for real, certainly you can understand that? And had you been I would have smiled and said thank to you. I am below you in Illinois and ride my motorcycle and like to meet friends.

Thank you for all you both do

Beyond War

Galactic Rabbit 
(not listed in phone book will work on this) 

  Apology cheerfully accepted, and I'll apologize right back at ya, as I wasn't as polite as I should've been. We have some different interests and some very much in sync and whether you ever click here or not, I'll be thinking of you as someone who's on our side.

Helen & Harry  unknownnews@inbox.com



Take it back

by Judy C.

Apr. 24, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
Re Freedom is for brave people, not for farm animals

You have also been poisoned by fluoride and mercury and had your education system destroyed and subverted. Your media are owned by only 4 or 5 corporations who feed you propaganda and nobody can get elected unless they have skeletons in the closet which allows control by blackmail.

That said, it is time to take back government ... and neither the Dems or the Repubs are the answer.

Judy C.  unknownnews@inbox.com


 
PREVIOUS WEEK'S DIALOGUE SUNDAY
APR 20
MONDAY
APR 21
TUESDAY
APR 22
WEDNESDAY
APR 23
THURSDAY
APR 24
FRIDAY
APR 25
SATURDAY
APR 26
NEXT
WEEK'S DIALOGUE
Dialogue for Wednesday, Apr. 23, 2008 

None of it matters by Max       Faded faith by Ann in the UK
Something smells fishy by JR Mooneyham       *Heavily* assisted suicide by Chris D.
Freedom is for brave people, not for farm animals by Mr. Chuckles
No-one is talking peace anymore, not really by The Canadian
'No' is a lovely word by Wig       Me and Alex Jones by Galactic Rabbit
Long drive on an empty tank by Chris M.

 

None of it matters

by Max

Apr. 23, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
Disapproval of Bush breaks another record

But still, no matter how much he's despised, no matter how plainly he ignores his oath of office, no matter how many laws he breaks, and no matter how deeply and daily he offends human decency, impeachment remains "off the table", thanks to Nancy Pelosi and the lily-livered Democrats.

Max  unknownnews@inbox.com



Faded faith

by Ann in the UK

Apr. 23, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
Re Thank God I have no faith left
Thank God I have no faith left, to be betrayed by such evil men claiming to be Christians.
Hear, hear. My faith started to go when the first abuse cases started to come to light. Then, even more so as more emerged. It disappeared completely when The Rat took office and I learned of his efforts to protect his vermin friends instead of the children involved.

Unfortunately, my beloved Grandmother passed away last year, a diligent and devout Catholic til the end, still believing that the Church and its leaders practiced what they preached -- like she did all of her life. It breaks my heart to think that, now she's gone, she too may now know what I've known about them these past few years, and that I never told her. I just hope she understands why.

Ann in the UK 

  I hav