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Dialogue for Saturday, May 9, 2008 

That was easy by The Canadian       Reeling by Jan_book_lover
Quit crying by Garry M.       Hippity hop by Wig
Stick-to-it-ness by MonkeyMan       An unfond farewell by Mary Ann M.
Flesh wound by Withanf       Them Russians sure are crazy by Marshall S.

 

That was easy

by The Canadian

May 10, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
Re Relentless propaganda on Iran

My brevity sometimes leads to misunderstanding. Just because I note a message trend coming from the White House concerning Iran does not mean that I believe the message is factually supported.

As I wrote to you before, I wanted to emphasize that the White House message is clear, even if the facts are not.

As such I agree with Marie. Truth is captured in the entropy of propaganda, and is not easily discernable to those outside of the First Circle.

***           ***           ***
Lebanon. hmmm... that was easy. Next Egypt.

The Canadian 

Marie K. replies
unknownnews@inbox.com



Reeling

by Jan_book_lover

May 10, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
Re Why Hillary won't quit

The very kind of disturbing notion I would expect would come to someone reeling under the influence of a pound of delicious, artery-clogging ham and a quarter cup of straight honey...

Jan_book_lover  unknownnews@inbox.com



Quit crying

by Garry M.

May 10, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
Re Coming to Bush's defense

First let's get this right you are democrats and liberals, second quit crying about stealing anything, and there has always been global climate change, al gore didn't invent it. the last time a president testified under oath he lied and said he didn't have sex with his intern, but of course that don't matter to you whatever the democrats do is ok isn't it? One more thing I tried to be nice and say there was things about your site I liked, but you I don't like you deserve any respect from me or anyone else. You're the problem.

Garry M. 

  Well, now I'm just plum perplexed. The day before yesterday you liked our site but said we hadn't presented President Bush's side in our coverage and commentary. So we published your complaints verbatim, and we responded politely, and asked you to say something in President Bush's defense. And for this you're angry at us?

I was really hoping you'd say something, even something very brief, in defense of the Bush administration, but your response today just changes the subject and adds a few mistakes or misstatements -- I don't see any defense of the Bush administration. So I'll ask again, even nicer, and I'll sweeten the offer: If you'll please say something coherent in defense of the Bush administration, I will cheerfully mail you a candy bar of your choice.

I still haven't said anything even slightly impolite to you, and Garry, I'm serious about the candy bar. Yummm.

Helen & Harry 

Ann in the UK replies, Jos replies
unknownnews@inbox.com



Hippity hop

by Wig

May 10, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
Guantanamo kangaroo trials hop along

It's still a kangaroo trial.

Wig  unknownnews@inbox.com



Stick-to-it-ness

by MonkeyMan

May 10, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
CNBC store sells "Hillary Nutcracker"

Although I consider myself a feminist, I can't help it. This is funny. There are plenty of nuts in DC that need to be crushed. I know that there are no Hillary fans here (on this webpage), but she has surprised even me with her stick-to-it-ness. She'll be criticized for staying or quitting. So why not stay? Even women who don't like her should at least appreciate that she is doing what she wants, or her terms. We need more women like that on this planet.

MonkeyMan 

  If we're talking about the nutcracker novelty item, I don't think it's particularly funny or clever, but I wouldn't object if it were sold at novelty shops. It should not, however, be sold as a souvenir by any corporation that, like CNBC, bills itself as a practitioner of objective journalism.

If we're talking about Hillary and her ongoing campaign, my opinion flip-flops faster than John McCain, but she certainly has every right to run. Also, her continued presence in the campaign helps make the politically bland, middle-of-the-road Obama look a little better by comparison.

Helen & Harry  unknownnews@inbox.com



An unfond farewell

by Mary Ann M.

May 10, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
The five mistakes Clinton made

This is really, really interesting because it truly and verily sounds as if Hillary beat herself by mismanaging her campaign.

It is also very Interesting because in a sense the long presidential campaign is a way to show administrative ability. Obama showed his leadership ability by "out-generaling" Hillary.

Recall that prior to this election, Hillary's self-testimonial of leadership "Ready on Day One" was unsupported by her resume or real world experience; she had always been the towel-holder, not even pack leader of a group of Brownies, much less governators, like her husband. So in her campaign fuck-up she exactly showed us how horribly her reign as president would have been!

Hillary's campaign has been pure bragging and 100% bullshit about what she would do as president. I don't think she would have done a damn thing, except sell us all out and call it "compromise".

Mary Ann M.  unknownnews@inbox.com



Flesh wound

by Withanf

May 10, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
Re Why Hillary won't quit

Hillary: "Just a flesh wound. ... I've had worse." Obama: "Whaddya gonna do, bleed on me?"

Withanf  unknownnews@inbox.com



Them Russians sure are crazy

by Marshall S.

May 10, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
Rehired KBR driver in Iraq caught with child porn -- again
 
Excerpt: A former bus driver for Iraq war contractor KBR Inc. who was fired in 2006 for possessing child pornography got rehired less than a year later, and has again been caught with a large collection of child porn, according to prosecutors.

I don't mind them prosecuting for child porn, but how about the rape and murders?

***           ***           ***
Blackwater unlikely to face charges in Iraqi deaths
 
Excerpt: Blackwater Worldwide, the security contractor blamed by an angry Iraqi government for the shooting deaths of 17 civilians, is not expected to face criminal charges -- all but ensuring the company will keep its multimillion-dollar contract to protect U.S. diplomats.


They can get away with killing 17 people, but they'd better not get caught with any child porn.

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Ex-KBR worker sentenced to 26 months for bribes
 
Excerpt: A Virginia federal court sentenced a former KBR employee to 26 months in prison for participating in a bribery scheme while working in Afghanistan, where KBR had a contract to provide services to the U.S. military.

Under the scheme, more than 80 truckloads of fuel were diverted for sale outside the airfield between May and September 2006, involving more than 784,000 gallons of fuel valued at more than $2.1 million, according to a Justice Department statement Friday.

And don't take bribes. But it's still OK to keep killin'.

***           ***           ***
Judge lets claims go forward against Halliburton
 
Excerpt: A federal district judge ruled Friday that a woman who says she was raped by co-workers while employed by a Halliburton Co. subsidiary in Iraq in 2005 can take her claims to trial.

At least the case will get some media attention. Or will it?

***           ***           ***
Passaic mayor pleads guilty in corruption case, resigns
 
Excerpt: The mayor of Passaic City resigned Friday after he pleaded guilty to attempted extortion and admitted he accepted $5,000 in cash to influence government contracts.

Samuel Rivera, a former police officer, is the latest of about 130 public officials to be found guilty of corruption in New Jersey since 2002 in a federal probe.

Politics and corruption. In NJ, it goes together like salt and pepper.

***           ***           ***
White House fights broader mad-cow testing
 
Excerpt: The Bush administration today urged a federal appeals court to stop meatpackers from testing all their animals for mad cow disease, but a skeptical judge questioned whether the government has that authority.

They might find out that Bush has mad cow disease.

***           ***           ***
Legal residents, troops being denied rebate checks
 
Excerpt: When Congress passed an economic-stimulus package giving hefty rebates to most taxpayers, it tried to make sure that illegal immigrants didn't get any of the cash.

But in doing so lawmakers inadvertently penalized hundreds of thousands of legal U.S. residents -- and tens of thousands of U.S. troops stationed overseas -- simply because their spouses lack a Social Security number.

We support the troops. As long as they don't come home with a foreign-born wife.

***           ***           ***
Tanks roll down Red Square in Soviet-style parade
 
Excerpt: Missiles, tanks and other heavy weaponry rolled through Moscow's Red Square in the Victory Day parade today, the first time since the collapse of the Soviet Union that they have appeared in the annual event.

Posters proclaiming the holiday throughout the city include the hammer-and-sickle insignia, which is also seen on the banners and period uniforms used by some of the regiments, which goose-stepped across the 6-acre (2.5-hectare) square under clear skies.

Goose stepping at a holiday celebrating the defeat of the Nazis? Them Russians sure are crazy.

Marshall S.  unknownnews@inbox.com


 
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Dialogue for Friday, May 9, 2008 

Rose-tinted spectacles by Ann in the UK       Denial and fantasy by MonkeyMan
Stephen King by Sherri B.       Threefer on religious nonsense by Mahdi Abdul Finkelstein
Why Hillary won't quit by William M.       Relentless propaganda on Iran by Marie K.
The pimps of corporate America by Chris M.       As Ayn Rand said by Daniel B.
Americans hate themselves by JR Mooneyham       Pledge break by Bandana Man
The dismal science by The Canadian       Nosey by Scott S.       Sunday cold cuts by Wig

 

Rose-tinted spectacles

by Ann in the UK

May 9, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
Re Coming to Bush's defense

Under normal circumstances Sir, I'd agree with you -- wholeheartedly. Two sides to every argument and all that. Good in everyone. Every cloud ... etc. But, as a non-partisan (honest) foreign observer rudely awakened by the atrocious activities of your current administration (unfortunately supported by my own), I plead with you: can I please borrow your rose-tinted spectacles? Go onnn. Just for an hour. A minute. Ten seconds. Come onnn, please. I'll send ya a couple a quid -- in pounds.

Ann in the UK  unknownnews@inbox.com



Denial and fantasy

by MonkeyMan

May 9, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
Maybe I am weary from the 7+ years of heartache, maybe the longest campaign in history is wearing me out, maybe it is the suffering I see in the headlines every day, or maybe I am growing cynical in my old age, but it really rubs me the wrong way when folks say "Well, we elected them." or "we need to get rid of them/him/whatever."

If there were any recourse many would have already taken it. The question I always end up with is "How?" How do I vote someone out of office when I am surrounded by an army of morons who truly believe that "...we are fighting them there, so we don't have to fight them here..."? They support McCain as the next President. How do I reason with people who think that evolution is a trick of the devil? How? How do I stop corruption without a badge and a gun?

My dad served in the Army, as did I. He and I both served overseas. I have always considered myself patriotic and a good citizen. I must admit though, for the first time, I have been considering moving out of this country. I love my country and I want it back. But How?

MonkeyMan 

  "But How?" is the big question the weights heavy on my heart almost any time I'm not lost in reruns of Everybody Loves Raymond. That's been the big question for seven years now, or seventy ...

And when you mention feeling like we're living in a nation of morons I'm reminded that as he was dying on the cross, Jesus is reported to have said "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do." I prefer thinking that the problem is the average person's ignorance, not his/her stupidity -- because ignorance is a problem that can be solved, but stupidity isn't.

Helen & Harry  unknownnews@inbox.com



Stephen King

by Sherri B.

May 9, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
Re Don't impugn my patriotism, says Stephen King

I sent a comment to the Bangor Daily News (after having made five attempts to register and finally getting in) only to get a message that the editor basically "filters" comments and will select the ones that will appear in the comment section.

I reminded the people commenting that Stephen King was a high school teacher in 1971. From his website: "In the fall of 1971, Stephen began teaching high school English classes at Hampden Academy, the public high school in Hampden, Maine." I also gave them this link to refresh their memory about the Vietnam war:

Vietnam War timeline: The bitter end

There was also one person on there that said that allowing felons in the military was fine because they had served their debt to society. To him I provided this:

Gang activity in the U.S. Military

But of course I was censored. One thing I know about high school teachers (my Dad was one for 30 years and my Aunt was one for 35.) is that they KNOW their students (well maybe not now but certainly in the 70s). They knew which students were struggling intellectually, financially, and socially. They knew what careers were available to their graduates during those years. That's what the "career counselors" were for back in the day. Budget cuts eliminated the career counselor and regional occupational programs in a lot of states.

I could have added links to sites that talk about recruiting in poor areas. I also remember the military being "directed" to certain students when I was in high school. I was directed by my teachers to college and others to the military recruiters. The comment section is made to look like there are only a few supporters of Stephen King while the rest are on the warpath. This is our "media" in action. Sigh...

Sherri B.  unknownnews@inbox.com



Threefer on religious nonsense

by Mahdi Abdul Finkelstein

May 9, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
Re Religious nonsense (to me)

Sherri B's Discussion item reminded me of a few things:

1) U.S. evangelicals call for step back from politics
 
Excerpt: A group of U.S. evangelical leaders called on Wednesday for a pullback from party politics so that followers would not become "useful idiots" exploited for partisan gain.

The Evangelicals' support of the Bush Regime is a brown stain on the seat of the trousers of Organized Religion. Mixing politics into religion is really a bad idea...

***           ***           ***
2) An atheist goes undercover to join the flock of mad Pastor John Hagee
 
Excerpt: '"Hello," I said, taking a deep breath. "My name is Matt. My father was an alcoholic circus clown who used to beat me with his oversize shoes."

The group twittered noticeably. Morgan's eyes opened to tea-saucer size.

I closed my own eyes and kept going, immediately realizing what a mistake I'd made. There was no way this story was going to fly. But there was no turning back.

"He'd be sitting there in his costume, sucking down a beer and watching television," I heard myself saying. "And then sometimes, even if I just walked in front of the TV, he'd pull off one of those big shoes and just, you know -- whap!"

I looked around the table and saw three flatlined, plainly indifferent psyches plus one mildly unnerved Morgan staring back at me. I could tell that my coach and former soldier had been briefly possessed by the fear that a terrible joke was being played on his group. But then I actually saw him dismissing the thought -- after all, who would do such a thing? I managed to tie up my confession with a tale about turning into a drug addict in my mid-twenties -- at least that much was true -- and being startled into sobriety and religion after learning of my estranged clown father's passing from cirrhosis.

It was a testament to how dysfunctional the group was that my story flew more or less without comment.'

Cult members lose the ability to reason for themselves, and the circular philosophy cannot be broken -- their "logic" rejects factual evidence from the real world when there is a conflict with church dogma.

***           ***           ***
3) Baptist Foundation of Arizona
 
Excerpt: The Baptist Foundation of Arizona (BFA) was a Southern Baptist charity whose fraudulent behavior led to the largest collapse of a religious financial institution in U.S. history.[1] The BFA was associated with the Arizona Southern Baptist Convention, which was affiliated with the national organization. When the BFA filed for bankruptcy in 1999, it had $530 million in liabilities as compared to a reported $70 million in assets.

Lessons from the Baptist Foundation Fraud

I saw a show about BFA on CNBC yesterday. It is part of their series, "American Greed". I was SHOCKED. Even after losing ALL of their money, there were churchgoers who refused to believe that BFA had done anything wrong ... not even after the trial that sent the evildoers to hard, felon prison! Old people invested everything in this church-backed scheme.

THE LESSON: Do not invest more than about 5% -- 1/25th -- of your loot in any one thing. The churchgoers who invested in BFA would have been spanked but not mortally wounded had followed this rule.

THE OTHER LESSON: Mixing money into religion is a Very Bad Idea. Do not give away your money to preachers -- they should be out doing honest work earning their own money ... maybe doing carpentry like you know who...

You could drop a buck in the collection plate, or buy the guy a cup of coffee and a donut, but if you want to feed the poor, cut out the middle man and do it yourself.

Mahdi Abdul Finkelstein 

P.S. Zirkle -- the Hitler's Birthday speechifying Republican in Indiana lost but he still got 16% of the vote! That's whacked. I looked at his website and it is lunacy. One of his proposals calls for giving confiscated firearms to women in exchange for their dildos! And 16% of the people voted for him.

  Sometimes I wonder what subset of the American population really is certifiably out of their minds. 16%, eh? I had hoped that crowd was somewhat smaller.

I really like your philosophy of cutting out the middle-man. As a long-standing rule of thumb, I never give to organized charities that purport to help the poor, except in the aftermath of Katrina-like disasters. When I can afford to give to the poor, that's exactly what I do: I see a poor person, and I give him or her whatever I can afford. If you give a panhandler ten bucks, you won't get a little receipt that lets you declare ten bucks off your tax bill, but you might get an enormous and utterly sincere thank you and a genuine hug, and I'll take that any day.

As a matter of fact, we received a recent donation in the mail, and tonight I'm going downtown, where my intent is to make a "tithe and offering" of at least several ten dollar bills to the most hopeless people I can find.

Helen & Harry  unknownnews@inbox.com



Why Hillary won't quit

by William M.

May 9, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
"They" want either Clinton or McCain. No-one wants Obama except a huge f*cking majority of We The People ... who are being treated like mushrooms: kept in the dark and buried in bullsh*t.  ... Click for more ... 

William M.  unknownnews@inbox.com



The dismal science

by The Canadian

May 9, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
As I have written before, Lebanon is the fulcrum in the Middle East. If it slides into full civil war, it will likely spill into war throughout the region.

The President of Georgia recently reported that his country is very close to war with Russia over control of its northern breakaway region.

Add Bolton's name to the list of the Bush Cabal urgently calling for airstrikes against Iran. Mind you he has been pushing for this for some time.

***           ***           ***
Re Oil price just killed the economy

For this Administration, the Strategic Petroleum Reserve is less about economics and more about military necessity for what's coming. Not WW3, but a potentially large Middle East blow-out, nonetheless.

As a commercial Banker, I also like your economic commentary. You are either professionally trained, read a lot or both. They are factual and balanced with measured conclusions.

Economics (macro and micro) is not called "the dismal science" without reason ;-)

The Canadian  unknownnews@inbox.com



The pimps of corporate America

by Chris M.

May 9, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
I recommend reading this in Progressive Review . It is probably one of Sam's best. He quotes from Auther Miller's Death of a Salesman but I think Jean Giraudoux's The Madwoman of Chaillot comes closer to the point.
 
Ragpicker : Countess, the world has changed'

Countess: Nonsense. How could it change ? People are the same. I hope.

Ragpicker : No, Countess. The people are not the same. The people are different. There's been an invasion. An infiltration. From another planet. The world is not beautiful any more. It's not happy.

Countess: Not Happy ? Is that true ? Why didn't you tell me this before ?

Ragpicker : Because you live in a dream, Countess. And we don't like to disturb you.

Countess: But how could it have happened ?

Ragpicker : Countess, there was a time when you could walk around Paris, and all the people you met were just like yourself. A little cleaner, maybe, or dirtier, perhaps, or angry, or smiling-but you knew them. They were you. Well, Countess, twenty years ago, one day, on the street, I saw a face in the crowd. A face, you might say, without a face. The eyes-empty. The expression-not human. It saw me staring, when it looked back at me with it's gelatine eyes, I shuddered. Because I knew to make room for this one, one of us must have left the earth. A while later, I saw another. And another. And since then, I've seen hundreds come in -yes-thousands.

Countess: Describe them to me.

Ragpicker : You've seen them yourself, Countess. Their clothes don't wrinkle. Their hats don't come off. When they talk, they don't look at you. They don't perspire.

Countess: have they wives ? Have they children ?

Ragpicker : They buy models out of shop windows, firs and all. The animate them by a secret process. then they marry them. Naturally then don't have children.

Countess: What work do they do ?

Ragpicker : They don't do any work. Whenever they meet, they whisper and then they pass each other thousand-franc notes. You see them standing on the corner of the stock exchange. You see them at auctions- in the back. They never raise a finger-they just stand there. In theater lobbies, by the box office-they never go inside. They don't DO anything, but whenever you see them, things are not the same. I remember a time when a cabbage could sell itself just by being a cabbage. Nowadays it's no good being a cabbage-unless you have an agent and pay him a commission. Nothing is free any more to sell itself or give itself away. These days, Countess, every cabbage has it's pimp.

Countess: I can't believe that.

Ragpicker : Countess, little by little, the pimps have taken over the world. They don't do anything, they don't make anything-they just stand there and it take their cut.

Sorry for the length. But It's worse today because the parents pimp the children and the schools pimp a piece of paper and a promise they cannot keep, but don't give a rat's ass so long as some chump buys into it. I have it here. with a director that couldn't program his way out of a wet paper bag but spouts all the corporate-business gooblety-gook. I wish it were as simple as Sam suggests at the end of his article.
 
"But humans have risen against worst oppressions. The main power of this one is that it so unseen, so unmentioned, so undebated. It is time to rise up against the corporate culture killers and send them back to their offices so America can learn to be America once again. We need to tear up our mission statements and start to actually do something. We need to trash our strategic visions and regain our ability to see things as they really are."

But I think some kind of "Corporate Cleansing" would be necessary. And reeducation of their young.

Chris M.  unknownnews@inbox.com



Relentless propaganda on Iran

by Marie K.

May 9, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
Clearly it is easy for Gen. Petraeus, Sec. Rice, Defense Sec. Gates, and all of those unnamed sources to spew forth their accusations/propaganda against Iran etc. while providing no proof or in the case of the “Syrian reactor” altered/fake pictures (no cooling tower). On the other hand, those of us who care about the truth have to take time to find sources that debunk the propaganda -- AND, I don’t mean sources that have to be taken with a grain of salt or LOTS of them, either. So here is what I found.  ... Click for more ... 

Marie K.  unknownnews@inbox.com



Americans hate themselves

by JR Mooneyham

May 9, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
What the hell?! This is in The Huffington Post?!? Was it a mistake? Or maybe HP is as desperate for traffic as everyone else.

Unfortunately this would seem to diminish HP's credibility for other topics, wouldn't it?

Eva Mendes topless and toe sucking in new photoshoot

***           ***           ***
5 myths about being 'Pro-Israel'

It seems the Post writer agrees with much of what I said a couple years back:
 
Israel seems to have taken leave of its senses. Each year that passes allows better weapons to pass into the hands of their enemies, and Israel's small size real estate-wise makes it especially vulnerable to such trends. Just one plane load of well-placed nukes would wipe it off the face of the Earth. But who needs nukes when you've got George Bush using the full power of his office to destroy the Jewish nation?

Israel should have made a just peace with their neighbors and the Palestinians when they enjoyed a position of maximum strength -- or in other words, prior to the Bush Administration coming in and ruining their chances, perhaps forever -- by giving the Israeli government virtually a blank check, policy-wise. What happens to most individuals when they suddenly get everything they could want? This scenario mainly occurs to a small number of musicians and film and sports stars, and large lottery winners. The ultimate consequences often involve a shattered life, where they end up worse off than before.

Bush put Israel into just such a predicament, by letting them dictate what America did during his term. And Israel promptly hung itself with all that fresh new rope.

9-22-06: The dire fate of Israel

***           ***           ***
SITE ARGUMENT: Americans hate themselves, and so elect evil leaders to bring about the hell they think they deserve.
 
Excerpt: "The asshole quality of people like Sarkozy and Boris Johnson and Bush and Cheney is part of the unconscious self-loathing of the populace. It's the outward projection of the increasingly putrid inner lives (what there is of them) of the people of western advanced capitalist societies. School shootings, addiction to useless anti depressants (and drugs and booze of all kinds) and to TV and video distraction is all part of the same fabric. Who better to represent a nation of alcoholics than Boris Johnson? It's why I fear McCain will probably win the election next year. His snarky rictus of a smile, his near psychotic glare and his rigid and robotic body movements all reflect the collective malaise of the nation. Scalia is a demonic psycho, so is Cheney, so is Boris, so is Condi and so is McCain and Clinton (both of them). These are all dark repugnant people bereft of compassion. They are the projections of our dark Id."

JR Mooneyham  (www.jrmooneyham.com/) 

  Dang me, that's pretty cold, but I don't buy it. There's a certain allure to telling ourselves the average American is psychotic, bonkers, mentally ill, or just stupid, but my outlook is more charitable. I think the average American is a lot like the ordinary people I meet on the street, at the laundry, on the bus -- basically decent people, but people who don't have the time or inclination to delve deep into dissecting the news, people who are lied to, profoundly and intentionally, by authoritative claims that these are more or less normal times, every time they read a newspaper or watch a newscast.

As for The Huffington Post, I'll just say jeepers, that's not where I'd expect to see some celebrity's uninteresting hooters. Sigh. I've never been terribly impressed with either Arianna Huffington (remember, she spent her millions on arch-right-wing causes before her political conversion) or her Huffington Post (which is unmistakably part of the mainstream media, not the alternative media).

Helen & Harry 

Yes. Lots of folks are too busy to pay much attention to things on the national level, and try to get by on a sound bite here and a sound bite there. So when all those sound bites are outright lies or 100% spin, those people will then act based on those lies and spin...i.e., crazy stupid. Or be 'led around by the nose' by Rove-type schemers, or media moguls.

There was apparently a mass media policy in place which used to prevent the type of Rush Limbaugh/Fox news excesses we see today. Plus limits on how many outlets the same guy could own. If memory serves, the Republicans killed all those protections, in the years after Reagan, Bush, etc. came into power.

I just hope to God the Democrats are planning on putting those protections back in place again if they ever gain back control...

JR Mooneyham  (www.jrmooneyham.com/) 

  If hazy history is playing properly in my memory, it was the repeal of the Fairness Doctrine (equal time requirements for broadcast media) that gave Limbaugh all his major success. I remember as recently as the mid-1990s listening to radio stations that alternated left-leaning talk shows with right-leaning talk shows, for a semblance of overall balance, but then, over the course of very few years, almost all of the left-leaning shows disappeared, to be replaced by more and more right-wing liars.

Helen & Harry  unknownnews@inbox.com



Nosey

by Scott S.

May 9, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
Re Bush regime rewards incompetent and dysfunctional corporations

I'd say this was right on the nose:
"George W. Bush, our inbred, water-brained, devo chuckle-monkey president. How did we get him? It is as if his father screwed a chimpanzee when the circus came to town! If not for the wealth and power of the Bush-Walker clan, Curious George W. would probably have ended up as an alcoholic, cokehead con-artist used-car salesman with a sub-prime mortgage in foreclosure."
Scott S.  unknownnews@inbox.com



Sunday cold cuts

by Wig

May 9, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
The Military's pricey restaurant tastes: Gone Are the days of grunts peeling potatoes

It's only money, but I actually liked SOS when I was in the army. Couldn't go the Sunday cold cuts though.

Army OKs $248M in barracks repairs
 
Excerpt: About a third of Fort Campbell's single Soldier barracks - serving some 3,300 Soldiers - house two Soldiers to a room. The 46 Soldiers on each floor have to share two large bathroom facilities.

ROFLMAO!!!!! 2 to a room?????? The non-cons in my day were the only personnel who enjoyed such luxury.

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Army may have to borrow to meet payroll

Can the Army apply for Welfare?

Wig  unknownnews@inbox.com



Pledge break

by Bandana Man

May 9, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
Clinton says Obama is not winning over "hard-working Americans, white Americans"

Enough already. I will personally pledge $50 to any Democratic Party candidate who challenges for Hillary Clinton's Senate seat.

Bandana Man  unknownnews@inbox.com



As Ayn Rand said

by Daniel B.

May 9, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
Re Bush regime rewards incompetent and dysfunctional corporations

Before you liberals explain how Republicans are Fascist, I agree - in fact, there are millions of conservatives scratching their head wondering what is going on.

I am reading Atlas Shrugged, and it is obvious the world Ayn Rand described is not the Republican Party -- Ayn Rand herself disagreed with the Republican Party.

What we believe is Objectivism and corporatism -- the right of every man to live life as he chooses, the right to make money. We oppose Fascism -- government supporting free enterprise. (This is documented in Atlas Shrugged.)

Leftists and Rightists both profess that corporations produce wealth for the owners and executives. We propose making everyone an owner and executive, spread the wealth.

Daniel B. 

  And, of course, spread the poverty as well.

Helen & Harry  unknownnews@inbox.com


 
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WEEK'S DIALOGUE
Dialogue for Thursday, May 8, 2008 

Oil price just killed the economy by Mr Chuckles       Burma Shave by Chris M.
Coming to America? by Ann in the UK       Credible commie threat by JR Mooneyham
Denial and fantasy by Herb Ruhs, MD       Deep in the basement by Wig
Eeeek by Sherri B.       Maybe they found the turtle by Marshall S.
Coming to Bush's defense by Garry M.

 

Oil price just killed the economy

by Mr Chuckles

May 8, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
Here is an old-fashioned Stock Charts link which you cannot obtain anymore from them -- as they now use Javascript:

$WTIC - West Texas Intermediate Crude - 3 yr w/RSI

Note the "RSI" -- Relative Strength Indicator -- which is now sustaining an above-70 level as the price of oil goes parabolic.

When commodity prices (and commodity-like things) go above 70 on the weekly chart that means the price is seriously overdone to the upside (over-bought). Within a month, unless WW3 starts, it will "correct" and go back down.

There doesn't need to be a rational reason why this always happens, it just is what it is. But if you need a reason it is that the bullish speculators are buying and selling from each other and eventually that game gets old -- then the speculators betting on a price drop enter the game and crush the bulls.

Unfortunately, oil at $120+ a barrel is an economy killer. Think of all the other bad stuff that has already happened, like the housing bubble and the debt bombs, and then add this in! Uh oh!

So now this is FOR REAL. A "No shit, Sherlock!" moment is at hand. A recession is coming no matter what.

Here is an article from Bill Fleckenstein. He lays out the non-oil reasons for recession and is very convincing. So if you add $120+ oil, what is left to guess about?
 
Excerpt: (his concluding paragraphs) When one considers the length of time it took to dig out from the last bubble and real estate's key role in that process, it would seem the height of folly to expect that in this go-round we would experience a recession both milder and shorter than the last one. Common sense suggests that we ought to handicap this version as longer and deeper, as opposed to shorter and sweeter.

In fact, the big difference between what we experienced after our stock-market bubble and what Japan experienced after its bubble burst in 1989 was that Japan's bubble was primarily a real-estate bubble -- fueled by enormous debt creation. That is one of the reasons Japan's real-estate market declined in excess of 80% over a decade and why it took so long for the Japanese economy to recover.

Folks like to say it's because the Japanese authorities didn't allow price discovery. There's some truth to that argument, but then again, that's exactly one of the fantasies we are pursuing here. Those who are expecting a drive-by recession are liable to find that what we're really experiencing is the calm before the storm.

Mr Chuckles 

The Canadian replies
unknownnews@inbox.com

P.S. -- did you know that Bush is STILL filling up the SPR (Strategic Petroleum Reserve, which is held in reserve for ... when the price of oil is high?!@#$)



Coming to America?

by Ann in the UK

May 8, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
Re Visit lovely ... somewhere else
I don't know what the stats are, but it's hard to imagine that America isn't on the decline as a destination for international tourists. Who would want to put up with this crap?
Not us. We've been wanting to visit friends over there for several years now, but every time we consider it, yet another of these insanities emerges from your shores. This one is just the latest in a line stretching all the way back toooooo... Bush's inauguration, I believe.

Mobile phones and laptops are part of daily life in our household. They go everywhere with us -- even on holiday. Why should we do without them when we could (and do) always take them elsewhere? There's no way we'd leave them behind (it's the 21st century, not the dark ages) or put our family through this sort of nonsense for the sake of a holiday in the US -- there are plenty of other great places for us to see, where we won't be treated like criminals as soon as we land on the doorstep.

Hope the fortress isn't getting lonely.

Regards as ever,

Ann in the UK  unknownnews@inbox.com



Credible commie threat

by JR Mooneyham

May 8, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
Gorbachev: US could start new Cold War

Well DUH!

The Republicans and the military-industrial-media complex have been doing their damnedest to rev up the Cold War again (and whatever other war they can) for quite a while now, largely out of fear American citizens are beginning to see through the 'war on terror' sham, thereby endangering the $trillions currently going into fat cat pockets around the world. Hell: Americans are even showing signs they might demand to have universal healthcare like everyone else, too! Holy smokes! Where's a credible commie threat when you need it? Or a caveman with a nuke?

JR Mooneyham  (www.jrmooneyham.com/)  unknownnews@inbox.com



Denial and fantasy

by Herb Ruhs, MD

May 8, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
Our politicians are corrupt because we let them get that way by indulging in denial and fantasy. Get real and get rid of business as usual politicians.

Herb Ruhs, MD  unknownnews@inbox.com



Burma Shave

by Chris M.

May 8, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
Re Religious nonsense (to me)
Burma Shave anyone? I used to see those signs all the time.
 "Empty beer cans"
"On the road"
"Are ugly many say"
"But at night"
"Reflecting bright"
"They safely"
"Guide the way"
"Burma Shave!"

Courtesy of Mad Magazine.

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Hillary Clinton says she'll stay in the presidential race
 
Excerpt: Asked at her news conference whether she intended to remain in the race through the convention roll call, Clinton said, "I'm staying in this race until there's a nominee and obviously I am going to work as hard as I can to become that nominee."

"You're Fired ! I like the sound of that so much, I'm going to say it again. You're Fired!"
--Kolchak: The Night Stalker

Chris M. 

  Chris, I know you know your obscure TV and movie trivia, but I'm doubtful here. I liked Kolchak, but to me that line sounds a lot like something David Doyle said to Elliot Gould in the underrated action classic Capricorn One.

Helen & Harry 

That line was from one of the many times his boss (Simon Oakland) canned him in the series. I just loved the way he said it too.

Chris M.  unknownnews@inbox.com



Deep in the basement

by Wig

May 8, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
Bush Iraq emails not recoverable, we are told

ROFLMAO!! Care to bet that the e-mails are going to buried deep in the basement of the George W. Bush library?

Wig  unknownnews@inbox.com



Eeeek

by Sherri B.

May 8, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
Just type in your zip or name of city. It's a little off because I know all of LA and Ventura county is at or above 4 dollars for premium.

USA National Gas Temperature Map

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Re Religious nonsense (to me)

Her intensity and certainty that I was clueless about politics and world events was staggering. Also she was way up high on the anger management scale. I'd hate to see what the discussion would have been like with someone she didn't see as a friend. Although now I'm sure she has her doubts about me. Eeeek.

Sherri B. 

  I will say thank you, sincerely, for arguing with her. On a practical level, at least "until the revolution comes" as the cliché goes, arguing with the utterly wrongheaded is among the most effective things we can do on an individual level. I try to get my blood boiling with a stranger at least a couple of times every week.

Helen & Harry 

LOL -- you're welcome. I had an argument today on a totally, well not totally, different subject. A guy is harassing a woman at work and she was too shy to tell him to back off. The columnist reamed her and mocked her so I tried to tell her that not everyone can deal with what could be a potential stalker like that, and she started saying that women are weak if they can't get in a guy's face and to go to HR will jeopardize her career...blah...blah...blah. Anyway, it was a distraction that got me steamed. Finally I ignored her when too many "women are weak if they" came out of her mouth.

Sherri B. 

  Women have a lot of disadvantages, from their upbringing in this society, from their lower-caste placement in the unspoken hierarchy, from the perpetual brainwashing that if you ain't beautiful you're worthless. But smart women know all that and kick ass anyway, and I'll admit I have limited patience for women who fall back on those excuses too quick and easy.

Helen & Harry  unknownnews@inbox.com



Maybe they found the turtle

by Marshall S.

May 8, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
Special Counsel shut down probe of Siegelman case last year
 
Excerpt: The U.S. Office of Special Counsel last year shut down a previously undisclosed investigation into the federal prosecution of former Alabama Gov. Don Siegelman, according to an internal memo made public Wednesday.

Special Counsel Scott Bloch ordered the case closed, according to the Jan. 18 draft memo, made public by the Project on Government Oversight, a watchdog group.

An attorney for Bloch, who himself is under a federal investigation, declined comment.

What a seedy mess. I think the country is being run by people with minds at the level of elementary school students. Apology to elementary school students.

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FBI search, leaked documents lead to renewed calls for ousting of Scott Bloch
 
Excerpt: Whistleblower advocates and a key GOP lawmaker are renewing calls for the resignation or firing of Special Counsel Scott Bloch after Tuesday's raid of Bloch's home and office by the FBI and the release of OSC documents on Wednesday.

The Project on Government Oversight, a Washington-based watchdog group that has been calling for Bloch's removal for three years, released on Wednesday an internal OSC memo showing that Bloch repeatedly ignored the recommendations of a task force he had created to investigate sensitive and high-profile matters, and did not heed the group's warnings that he was demanding probes that were overly broad or outside OSC's jurisdiction.

Another Bush crony-incompetent about to fall.

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EPA official says agency might not regulate toxic chemical in water
 
Excerpt: A top Environmental Protection Agency official told a Senate committee Tuesday that there “is a distinct possibility” that the agency will not limit the amount of perchlorate, a toxic ingredient of solid rocket fuel, that is allowable in drinking water.

Why should they? If they did, they'd have to do something about it, which they don't intend to do.

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Conyers asks DEA why it's going after medical marijuana
 
Excerpt: House Judiciary Committee Chairman John Conyers, D-Mich., citing complaints from Bay Area mayors and lawmakers, wants the Drug Enforcement Administration to explain its increased use of "paramilitary-style enforcements raid" and property forfeiture orders against medical marijuana patients and suppliers in California.

He also noted the DEA's recent tactic of sending letters to hundreds of property owners who rent to medical marijuana dispensaries, advising them that they could be prosecuted and lose their property under federal law.

The government makes too much money off marijuana to let people grow it for themselves.

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Cannabis classification to be tightened in Britain
 
Excerpt: LONDON (Reuters) -- Cannabis will be raised to a class B drug with a maximum five year jail term for users, the government said on Wednesday, rejecting a recommendation from its own drugs advisers to leave the classification unchanged.

With the economic downturn, the Brits must need more revenue. Make it more illegal, the price goes up.

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Marines ignore Taliban cash crop of opium
 
Excerpt: The Taliban, whose fighters are exchanging daily fire with the Marines in Garmser, derives up to US$100 million (Ð64.4 million) a year from the poppy harvest by taxing farmers and charging safe passage fees -- money that will buy weapons for use against U.S., NATO and Afghan troops.

Yet the Marines are not destroying the plants. In fact, they are reassuring villagers the poppies won't be touched. American commanders say the Marines would only alienate people and drive them to take up arms if they eliminated the impoverished Afghans' only source of income.

At the beginning of the Afghan and Iraq wars, I saw a protester of the wars with a sign that read "Blood for Oil and Drugs". He'll be happy to know that's still true, that our Marines are right there protecting the opium plants, so that children around the world will get hooked and die horribly.

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Penny prices pinched by rising cost of metal
 
Excerpt: Further evidence that times are tough: It now costs more than a penny to make a penny. And the cost of a nickel is more than 7½ cents.

Surging prices for copper, zinc and nickel have some in Congress trying to bring back the steel-made pennies of World War II and maybe using steel for nickels, as well.

Are we quickly moving back to the 1930's and 1940's? Rationing, shortages, economic collapse? Time to get out my Glen Miller records and brush up on the Jitterbug?

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NASA to announce success of long galactic hunt
 
Excerpt: NASA has scheduled a media teleconference Wednesday, May 14, at 1 p.m. EDT, to announce the discovery of an object in our Galaxy astronomers have been hunting for more than 50 years. This finding was made by combining data from NASA's Chandra X-ray Observatory with ground-based observations.

Here's some suggestions people have made about what it is:

Bush's brain, found at last. The Big Black Hole at the center of the Galaxy. Clinton's path to the nomination. Jimmy Hoffa. NASA found out that Earth is in the Twilight Zone. Could it be Osama bin Forgotten?

Some cultures think the earth is sitting on a big turtle, and that it is carrying the earth through space. Maybe they found the turtle.

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U.S. court ruling on Tasers worries Canadian doctors
 
Excerpt: The U.S.-based manufacturer of the controversial stun guns, Taser International, has won a court order in Ohio that forces a medical examiner to change autopsy reports.

Dr. Lisa Kohler had found that electrical shocks from Tasers were partially to blame for the deaths of three men in separate confrontations with police.

Taser International launched and won a civil suit, forcing Kohler to delete any reference to the deaths being related to electric shocks, and to term them "accidental deaths."

"If we were required to have at the level of scientific and medical certainty that something was the cause of death, before we were permitted to declare it, most of the people who died in North America would have died of unknown causes," Stanbrook said.

Stanbrook is deputy editor of the CMA Journal, which last week carried an editorial that expressed discontent with the current research into the effects of Taser use on suspects. The editorial said most of that work was done at the behest of Taser International and needed to be verified by independent researchers.

Insurance companies have taken over the treatment part of the medical profession. Now the Taser company has taken over the autopsy part.

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Idaho student says teacher tossed his Mexican flag in trash
 
Excerpt: TWIN FALLS, Idaho -- A high school student says he may file a lawsuit against a physical education teacher who took a Mexican flag he had brought for Cinco de Mayo and put it in the garbage ...

Isn't Idaho where all those rabid Los Angeles cops go? If someone had put the American flag in the garbage, they'd have been lynched.

Marshall S. 

Edna replies
unknownnews@inbox.com



Coming to Bush's defense

by Garry M.

May 8, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
I think your site is good for the most part but you go on and on about Bush you sound like the people sending you hate mail, there are things I like and thinks I don't so just remember there is always two sides to every argument.

Garry M. 

  George W Bush stole the Presidency twice, and fronts an administration that's killed a million people, committed war crimes by any reasonable definition of the term, ignored the emergency of global climate change, abrogated the 700-year-old writ of habeas corpus, eroded civil liberties that ten generations of Americans fought to win and preserve, overseen the destruction of an American city, torpedoed the US economy, and (at least) allowed the events of 9/11 to happen, then tried to block any investigation and refused to testify under oath about it.

The corporate-controlled media presents the Bush administration's side of such "arguments" daily and 'round the clock, rarely interrupted by the briefest whispers of opposition. But cordially, sir, if you think Bush et al have been victimized by unfair coverage, by all means, let's hear your arguments in defense of the Bush administration.

Helen & Harry 

Ann in the UK replies, Garry M. replies
unknownnews@inbox.com


 
PREVIOUS WEEK'S DIALOGUE SUNDAY
MAY 4
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MAY 6
WEDNESDAY
MAY 7
THURSDAY
MAY 8
FRIDAY
MAY 9
SATURDAY
MAY 10
NEXT
WEEK'S DIALOGUE
Dialogue for Wednesday, May 7, 2008 

Religious nonsense (to me) by Sherri B.       Visit lovely ... somewhere else by Ruth T.
Doctorow and Edwards by Mary Ann M.       A coordinated cover-up by Rebecca
Nuri Al Maliki won't play ball by The Canadian       Play the "poor us" part by Chris M.
Topper by SirJ       They're running out of 4's by Kathy Fisher
Sweet dreams by Jos       White kids in trouble! by Gerry R.

 

Religious nonsense (to me)

by Sherri B.

May 7, 2008
 PERMANENT LINK 
I got into a "discussion" with a friend about the "end times" ... sigh. So here are the quotes she delivered unto me about Ms. Hillary. (They're kind of funny though, if you picture them in your head as cartoons.) I mean they're almost the entire freaking book of Revelations. Hey, I went to Sunday school. The fact that I slept through most of it isn't relevant :) The end of our "discussion" (at the bottom) was the most hilarious (and a little creepy) of all. Okay I've stopped laughing here they are:
 
17:4 The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the impurities of her fornication.

17:5 And on her forehead a name was written, "MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF THE PROSTITUTES AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH."

17:6 I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. When I saw her, I wondered with great amazement.

17:7 The angel said to me, "Why do you wonder? I will tell you the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and the ten horns.

17:8 The beast that you saw was, and is not; and is about to come up out of the abyss and to go into destruction. Those who dwell on the earth and whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will marvel when they see that the beast was, and is not, and shall be present.

17:9 Here is the mind that has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sits.

17:10 They are seven kings. Five have fallen, the one is, the other has not yet come. When he comes, he must continue a little while.

17:11 The beast that was, and is not, is himself also an eighth, and is of the seven; and he goes to destruction.

17:12 The ten horns that you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet, but they receive authority as kings, with the beast, for one hour.

17:13 These have one mind, and they give their power and authority to the beast.

17:14 These will war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings. They also will overcome who are with him, called and chosen and faithful.

17:15 He said to me, "The waters which you saw, where the prostitute sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations, and languages.

17:16 The ten horns which you saw, and the beast, these will hate the prostitute, and will make her desolate, and will make her naked, and will eat her flesh, and will burn her utterly with fire.

17:17 For God has put in their hearts to do what he has in mind, and to be of one mind, and to give their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God should be accomplished.

17:18 The woman whom you saw is the great city, which reigns over the kings of the earth.

This "friend's" basic thought is that Hillary will ascend to the throne, so to speak, screw us over, and get us nuked. I told my friend it ain't over 'til the fat lady sings. She is now angry with me as I am not "in touch" with political and world events and the "signs" that are being shown to me. Burma Shave anyone? I used to see those signs all the time.

Still laughing...